Vitality Dice: A damage variant

[MostlyDm]

I think you recover the Vitality Dice too often. Perhaps turn some of the speed of getting them back into a feat (recover action).

You have Defense 10+DEX+Shield

You have DR = to your armor -10.

You can reduce damage with your VD when you are hit 1dX+proficiency (X=HD type).

I would say you could use multiple VD per round.

I would change the VD to be Dodge Dice and have them be 1dX+DEX. Medium and heavy armor lowers DEX, this would give a reason why to have light armor, you can dodge better.

You have wounds = to your CON score.

I would divorce the CON score from the wounds. So that you do not have to calculate stuff as your CON score goes down.

I would eliminate the CON checks on short rests and long rests. Just say on a short rest you can get back 1 and at 10th you can get back 2. On a long rest you can get back half or if playing in a more heroic game you get back all. Recover wounds 1 per day with a medicine check recover 2. Cure wounds spell recovers 1 wound per level used. Healing word recovers one dodge die.

Taking all of your changes together, what use is left for CON? DEX is now used for range/finesse, Defense, and damage avoidance? Seems excessive.

 

[dave2008]

Just wanted to let you know it is hard to read ythe text of the OP when one has a black background, here is how you can fix it: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?348563-Dark-Text-on-a-Dark-Background-Tutorial

It is just a formatting issue. When you make the change it will be black on a white background and light gray on a black background.

 

[Sadrik]

Taking all of your changes together, what use is left for CON? DEX is now used for range/finesse, Defense, and damage avoidance? Seems excessive.

I hear you. Let's see this is what I think CON is still for.
CON sets your wounds. The difference between 10 wounds and 18 wounds is fairly dramatic.
CON gives you one of the most important saves.
CON can be featured in several feats that modify the system. For instance, rather than dodging hits you might have someone be able to withstand blows by swapping in their CON score instead of DEX. This may be what the Barbarian feature does (Monk WIS).

I think the advantage of using the HD+DEX is that when you wear heavy armor your DEX is reduced. Otherwise, there is no reason not to wear the heaviest armor you can. Light armor is just the crap you wear before you get the feat for the next level of armor. Hello dwarf feature.

How about adding this:
You have a number of Dodge Dice equal to your CON modifier + level. This brings CON back in in a significant way and lets low level play with these a little more. After one encounter they will not necessarily have to short rest. Better it keeps the dichotomy between heavy and light armor intact and still makes CON a desired ability.

 

[Sadrik]

Recap:
You have wounds = to your CON score
You have Defense 10+DEX+Shield
You have DR = to your armor -10
You have level+CON number of Dodge Dice
You can reduce incoming damage by spending one or more Dodge Dice
Each Dodge Die reduces HD+DEX (modified by DEX cap on armor)

 

[AverageCitizen]

Just wanted to let you know it is hard to read ythe text of the OP when one has a black background, here is how you can fix it: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?348563-Dark-Text-on-a-Dark-Background-Tutorial

It is just a formatting issue. When you make the change it will be black on a white background and light gray on a black background.

Oh, I see. I copied it out of my google doc. I'll see if I can fix it.

 

[AverageCitizen]

I think you recover the Vitality Dice too often. Perhaps turn some of the speed of getting them back into a feat (recover action).

The idea is that they represent your stamina and footing. It seems like they should come back pretty fast. Do you think it's too fast conceptually or mechanically?

You have Defense 10+DEX+Shield

You have DR = to your armor -10.

You can reduce damage with your VD when you are hit 1dX+proficiency (X=HD type).

I would say you could use multiple VD per round.

I am pretty sure this is all the same as I have it. You can use as many VD as you have available.

I would change the VD to be Dodge Dice and have them be 1dX+DEX. Medium and heavy armor lowers DEX, this would give a reason why to have light armor, you can dodge better.

Pretty much the only I didn't do this is because Dex is already the golden-boy of stats, but I agree that Dex would be on-concept here. I used proficiency instead, casting VD and the bonus as generic skill at not dying that all adventurers pick up throughout their career. This way does suggest that a high-level character, even a wizard, has picked up a great deal of acumen at avoiding danger. I'm not sure if everybody will like that, but I just can't justify making Dex a required stat for all but a few heavily armored classes.

You have wounds = to your CON score.

I would divorce the CON score from the wounds. So that you do not have to calculate stuff as your CON score goes down.

I would eliminate the CON checks on short rests and long rests. Just say on a short rest you can get back 1 and at 10th you can get back 2. On a long rest you can get back half or if playing in a more heroic game you get back all. Recover wounds 1 per day with a medicine check recover 2. Cure wounds spell recovers 1 wound per level used. Healing word recovers one dodge die.

I echo [MENTION=6788973]MostlyDm[/MENTION] and his concerns, here, about Con not being used enough. If Con isn't used for durability or recovery, then what is it, conceptually? I cast it as a character's physically resilience, how quickly he or she bounces back from injury, how hale and hearty he or she is. I agree that the healing needs work, but I think it needs to tie to CON.

I am not married to CON damage for wounds. I think it has its merits, but I understand that it has its drawbacks as well. Does the penalty chart for ability modifiers even go all the way down to 1?

 

[AverageCitizen]

Recap:
You have wounds = to your CON score
You have Defense 10+DEX+Shield
You have DR = to your armor -10
You have level+CON number of Dodge Dice
You can reduce incoming damage by spending one or more Dodge Dice
Each Dodge Die reduces HD+DEX (modified by DEX cap on armor)

Sorry, I guess I should have replied to this one rolled into my other reply. The only thing I haven't addressed yet here is level+con dodge dice. It makes sense, but it multiplies early survivability by 2-3 in some cases, on top of wounds, which almost doubled it already.

 

[dave2008]

Oh, I see. I copied it out of my google doc. I'll see if I can fix it.

You got it - looking good. Also, I like some of this (big fan of AC as damage reduction), but I don't see the need for vitality dice. I prefer to just have two pools of hit points: hit points (HP: what we no an love and advance w/ level) and bloodied hit points (BHP: which are fixed based on size and Con). It is really a similar idea, but with less rolling and time at the table.

 

[Sadrik]

Sorry, I guess I should have replied to this one rolled into my other reply. The only thing I haven't addressed yet here is level+con dodge dice. It makes sense, but it multiplies early survivability by 2-3 in some cases, on top of wounds, which almost doubled it already.

I think I agree with you:
You have wounds = to your CON score
You have Defense = 10+DEX+Shield
You have DR = to your armor -10
When you take damage you may spend one or more HD to reduce the damage you take by rolling them
Your HD reduce damage = HD+CON
You recover 1 HD per short rest and all HD on a long rest

My only worry and this would have to be vetted through playtesting and that is the DR of armor. Is it too high for heavy armor. It may make more sense to go to DR = (armor - 10)/2 rounding up. In this way it ranges from +1 to +4 rather than +1 to +8.

Also for the defense score (parry) you may want to look here.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?373681-Armor-as-DR

 

[MostlyDm]

In some home brews I've enjoyed having armor DR expressed as a die roll to represent coverage/hit location... Sometimes the blow catches you full on in the joint, other times it glances off the breastplate.

However, we already have rolling DR, and adding more rolls would slow things down more. Probably not worth it.

I somehow missed that vitality dice add proficiency. I'd assumed CON. I think I like proficiency to it more than CON or DEX... Agree that DEX gets too good otherwise.

Question: does heavy armor prevent applying DEX to defense?

If so, defense is even more laughable, which I'm not a fan of... Heavily armored Warriors were absolutely still able to avoid blows. But if it doesn't, then the only penalty for heavy armor is stealth, don/doff time, and RP concerns. That's actually plenty for me and my standard group, but it's worth bearing in mind.