Vitality for Spells?

Draining spells

True 20 Sorcery is similar, although I've been working on my own variant for World of Esaene.

It uses a core similar to EOM, so I'm not dealing with standard D&D spells for one. Still, the cost of the spell (MP) is how much vitality damage you take, although you have a Power stat that acts as DR against that drain. Each time you cast a spell, you lose 1 Power, and they recover slowly. So you could keep healing yourself, in theory, but that won't help you in the Power loss and each successive spell is doing additional damage to you (since the DR is being reduced each time).
 

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For the sake of completeness, here's the final recommendation I made to my GM:

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Maybe you could use Spell Points (pg.154 Unearthed Arcana) with a few modifications to make them reflect vitality or elan:

1) A caster regenerates 1/24th of their spell points every hour instead of by resting for the night.

2) After casting a spell, the caster must make it a WILL save DC (10+spell points expended) or grow increasingly tired, moving through the categories below:

tired: -1 STR & DEX
fatigued: -2 STR & DEX, cannot run or charge
winded: -4 STR & DEX, cannot run or charge
exhausted: -6 STR & DEX, moves at half speed
staggered: single move or standard action each round (plus still exhausted)
unconscious


I made "tired" and "winded" up. The rest are as per the SRD. If using this system, I would also override the written rules for recovering from fatigue and say you move up the scale 1 step per hour of rest (rather than it taking 8 hours to recover from fatigue). A custom cleric spell or two might also be in order to help fix up these conditions (ie. "Transfer Fatigue").

To insure that a frequent caster shows some signs of wear, you could say that a caster at less than half spell points is automatically fatigued (if not already) and one who is out of spell points is (at least) exhausted.


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If you see any glaring problems with the above, feel free to let me know (as otherwise we'll probably run into them in the middle of a session. :confused: I can see that this might make spell caster weaker over-all, and that is acceptable given the other campaign parameters.
 


hm...

*bump*

i'd like to hear more input on this. i'm toying with new magic systems, and i like the idea of subdual damage from casting. can anyone elaborate on the true20 or EoM systems? i'm thinking about purchasing one or both of these products, but you can only tell so much from the blotters.
 
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Well, I'll post my version of this sort of spellcasting, through a core class I made called the Magus (plural Magi) for a dual setting I call Convergence (high-tech world in a scientific setting with no remaining magic is connected by gates and portals to a high-magic world suddenly, and magic is rekindled slightly in the high-tech world). Haven't finished enough yet on the setting and the handful of new feats, classes, and gear (for characters of the high-tech world) to make use of the setting yet, though.

My setting uses a sort of Wound/Vitality, but with Health replacing Wounds, and since I don't have UA or the SWd20 books, it isn't directly based on that system. Still, it has similarities I'm sure, so this should be convertable to the Wounds/Vitality system in d20. For reference, Magi get d10 hit dice normally (so 1d10 added to max Vitality each level), and are capable of being either decent in combat (through little or no spellcasting), or poor in combat (with enough spellcasting to be similar to a sorcerer, or maybe a psion in equivalence). Their spells known are similar to a sorcerer in number, but a bit slower and more linear in acquisition (like a wizard, starting with some 1st and 0-level spells known, gaining new spell levels at the wizard's rate). Magi get slightly better familiars than normal, and a few bonus feats over time, with an average BAB and little else in the way of benefits or abilities.

Magus spellcasting details in spoiler block.
[sblock]
Spells: A magus casts arcane spells from the Magus Spell List (see below). He casts these spells without needing to memorize them beforehand or keep a spellbook. The number of spells a magus knows are determined by his class level, as shown in the Magus Spells Known table. Magi do not have spell slots like other spellcasters do, and instead of using up spell slots to cast spells, magi expend small amounts of life-force.

Thus, whenever a magus begins to cast a spell, his current Vitality is reduced by a number of points equal to 1 + the spell’s level (or it’s effective level, if modified by metamagic; though magus spells still have the same limits to their effective levels as those of any other spellcaster). If the spell’s level or effective level is 3rd or higher, then for every 4 levels or effective levels of the spell (considering metamagic adjustments to required spell slot, which function for a magus as simply an equivalent increase in Vitality or Health cost), the magus may instead reduce their current Health by 1 point, in place of the 4 Vitality they would have otherwise spent for the spell.

Note that these reductions in Health and Vitality do not count as actual damage, and thus the magus does not begin to bleed to death after spending Health to cast a spell; however, they still suffer all the normal penalties and restrictions inherent to having their current Health or Vitality reach certain points, they just don’t begin bleeding to death after spending Health to cast a spell, because they pay in life-force rather than actually being injured. Note that the magus can also be healed after casting spells, such as a friendly cleric casting Cure Light Wounds upon the magus, and thus be able to cast more spells afterward, in such events.

Also, a magus cannot cast any further spells if they would reduce either his Health or Vitality below 1 point; the magus cannot willingly, or even accidentally, cast so many spells to where they would kill him or knock him unconscious. However, due to the special way in which they cast their spells, the number of spells a magus can cast each day is limited only by their Health and Vitality and the amount of healing they receive that day.

Magi receive bonus spells for high Intelligence, and to cast a spell a magus must have an Intelligence score at least equal to 10 + the level of the spell. Note however that due to the special way in which magi cast spells, their bonus spells for high Intelligence instead affect the number of spells the magus learns of any given spell level at the time they gain access to it, rather than allowing them to cast more spells per day; this is a special exception for the magus, since magi don’t have spell slots and cast their spells differently. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a magus’ spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the magus’ Intelligence modifier.
[/sblock]
 

Have only heard about True D20, but EoM is one of my favorite systems.

EoM: Revised is a spell point system in which casters learn ingredients and can compile those ingredients into spells. Instead of a long listing of spells and balance headaches trying to estimate level, EoM gives you a relatively short list of effects and you build your own. Balance is achieved through the cost of the spell.

The system does alter game play some-what. Evokes, direct damage spells such as fireball, are less powerful. Other effects, such as Scry and Teleport, are easier to attain. Most Core spells can be re-created, altho some don't quite match up. My game has run mixed Core and EoM casters without any issues.

Downside: it takes a bit of a learning curve to get the hang of designing spells.
Upside: The spells are 'flavorless'.. basically packages of effects. This allows the caster/DM to add whatever kind of flavor they want to a spell, creating a theme for the Mage or casting style..even creating signature effects.

I much prefer the system over trying to memorize the literal thousands of spells published for Core and the flexibility to create is amazing.

EoM: Mythic Earth takes the system into a skill/fatigue direction that may also work for you. Have read over the rules but not been able to use them in play.
 

i'm thinking about using a spell point system based on vitality points. i.e., spell points are vitality points. spells would do an amount of subdual damage equal to 2 x spell level (cantrips would deal 1 point of damage). healing spells would convert lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

this system may require an increased hit die for the caster classes... any thoughts?
 

AbeTheGnome said:
hm...

*bump*

i'd like to hear more input on this. i'm toying with new magic systems, and i like the idea of subdual damage from casting.

Several published supplements have discussed using Vitality points (or, in their case, subdual damage) to power spells. SSS Advanced Player's Guide suggests 1 point per level of subdual damage. Thieve's World is similar. BESM Advanced Magic rolls dice to determine subdual damage with the type of dice and number determined by the spell.

None suggest increased hit dice for spellcasters. The Advance Player's Guide suggests the optional rule that spellcasters only pay the subdual damage if they miss their "spellcasting" roll (a new skill) by 5 or more. Otherwise, they successfully cast the spell without penalty (for a little while. There are other rules that discuss increasing chance of failure as the spellcaster finds it harder to cast the spell).
 

Ki Ryn said:
2) After casting a spell, the caster must make it a WILL save DC (10+spell points expended) or grow increasingly tired, moving through the categories below:

Instead of using saves, which could end up wiping a character out pretty quickly if they roll poorly, threshold/percentage values for tiredness levels.

i.e., when you cast a spell that reduces your spell points to <=50% of your base* you become Tired.

*If a Wizard has 4sp, and a bonus 2sp from a high Int, he shouln't become tired until <=2sp.
 

AbeTheGnome said:
i'm thinking about using a spell point system based on vitality points. i.e., spell points are vitality points. spells would do an amount of subdual damage equal to 2 x spell level (cantrips would deal 1 point of damage). healing spells would convert lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

this system may require an increased hit die for the caster classes... any thoughts?

To make the casters sweat a little what I'd do is set the vitality drain to CasterLevel instead; as characters can voluntarily reduce their caster level to both pull their punches and to reduce vitality drain).

If you really wanted to be evil, you could use SpellLevel+CasterLevel instead...

In either case, instead of giving casters higher HD, I'd give them reserve points equal to the hp they gain from any HD gained from classes that grant caster levels.
 

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