Voidmind Creature (MM3) and Mind Flayer (XPH) CR & other help

[Davelozzi]

I'm about to introduce mind flayers and duergar to my campaign for the first time, using duergars as the result of illithid experimentation on hapless dwarves.
I've got the duergar controlling an old dwarf hold as sort of a satellite settlement from a nearby mind flayer commmunity.

At any rate the new voidmind creature template from Monster Manual III looks pretty cool and I was thinking it would work well to use for some of the more powerful duergar. But I'm wondering what folks think about the balance of it. It lists CR as only +1. However, the Mind Flayer Host supernatural ability that it has allows any of three mind flayers, each up to 5 miles away, to dominate the voidmind creature, seeing and hearing through it's eyes and ears, and allowing it to manifest its own psionic abilities through the creature as if the creature were doing so itself. To mean, this seems way over the top for +1 CR.

For that matter, using the adjusted mind flayer from the Expanded Psionics Handbook (as I do), mind flayers get to manifest powers as a 9th level telepath. There's no CR adjustment here either, though the power selection is far superior to the five powers a standard MM mind flayer has listed in his psionics special ability. Yet it seems as if the XPH is trying to modify the base mind flayer, not the mind flayer sorceror, which is more comparable in some ways.

Thoughts?

(Some of the stuff about the mind flayer might be cleared up by checking the stats mind flayer telepath in the new D&D Minis Aberrations set. If anyone has that mini and is willing to share some details about the stats, that'd be great).

 

[ruleslawyer]

Thought #1: The voidmind template should have a CR adjustment based on the base creature's CR, just as with some other templates (paragon, for example). I'd put it at +1 CR for base creature's CR 8 or higher, rising to +2 for CR 5-7, and +3 for CR 4 or less. That should give the psionic abilities some balancing out.

Thought #2: The psion mind flayer is indeed tougher than the base mind flayer. Is it better than an 8th-level human telepath? Yeah. Is it better than a 9th-level human telepath? Well:

HD: 8d8 vs. 9d4. Advantage illithid.

AC: +3 natural armor. Advantage illithid.

Attacks: By weapon +4 base or by four tentacles with improved grab and extract +6 base. Advantage: MASSIVELY illithid.

SA: Mind blast and psionics vs. just psionics. Slight advantage illithid.

SQ: Telepathy and SR 25 (!) vs. none. Clear advantage illithid.

Ability scores: Assuming the NPC telepath gets an elite stat array, stats are probably Str 8, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 10. Compared to that, the illithid has +4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int, +3 Wis, and +7 Cha. Advantage illithid.

So, on all counts, the illithid is superior to a 9th-level NPC human telepath. Of course, I tend to think that standard-race NPCs aren't worth CR = level, but even if you assume that NPCs are worth at least CR = level -1, the illithid is a minimum CR 9. Me, I set the psionic illithid at CR 10.

 

[Henrix]

Well, I'll just tell you that the Mind Flayer Telepath mini doesn't help at all in your queries, though it's a cool mini! The rolplaying stats seems to be just the basic XPH illithid.

The XPH mind flayer should possibly be adjusted up a CR or so. I'd say it's at least as dangerous as a 9th lvl psion, possibly a little more, so CR 9 or 10.

 

[Davelozzi]

Coo, thanks guys.

 

[the Jester]

A great analysis...

Wow, impressively done there. I agree with your assessment of CR 10 given such overwhelmingly well-thought argumentations.