VoP and Monk

[NightCrawler]

I dont know about VOP and monks but this feat in the hands of a druid can be superb!!
I play one druid with this feat and i find him having the best AC of the party not to mention that VOP stucks with wild shape. As for his "to hit" ability he is pretty good thx to wild shape. So he has the best AC for no costs in attack!!! Pretty fun!!

 

[Jack Simth]

I dont know about VOP and monks but this feat in the hands of a druid can be superb!!
I play one druid with this feat and i find him having the best AC of the party not to mention that VOP stucks with wild shape. As for his "to hit" ability he is pretty good thx to wild shape. So he has the best AC for no costs in attack!!! Pretty fun!!

A holy symbol is curiously absent from the list of things a VoP character is permitted. While the Druid's Holly and Mistle has no cost, the Druid still can't have it, odd as it sounds. Fortunately, it sounds odd enough that a very great many DM's will house-rule that curiosity away without thinking twice.

But yes, the Druid is one of the rather few classes that work mechanically well within the Vow of Poverty. Even then, though, at most levels you can generally arrange to do better with a non-VoP Druid than you can with a VoP Druid.

 

[nittanytbone]

VoP monk is pretty ineffective, especially at higher levels. The biggest problem -- other than lack of offense -- is lack of versatility. VoP doesn't let you fly across that ravine; it doesn't let you easily gain Pro from Fire when the party adventures in Muspelheim; it doesn't let you get Bane ammo to employ against the zombie horde.

And an AC of 22 at level 1 or 2 is no big deal. Cleric in hall plate + heavy shield + pro evil = AC 21. A halfling rogue in chain shirt with mwork buckler, chain shirt, and 20 DEX has AC 21 as well.

 

[Jack Simth]

A friend and I just joined a new campaign, and I am new to the 3.5 rules. He has put together a 1st level monk, 18 Dex and 18 Wis, with the Vow of Poverty feat. I am not completely familiar with the rules, but the character seems really unbalanced. It starts with an AC of 22 (i.e. 4 from Dex, 4 from Wis, and 4 from VoP). Is this right? Do all of those bonuses stack?

Yeah, pretty much.

Oh, beware next level, when he shifts from LG to NG and starts taking levels in Druid... that's when you want to start worrying.

But then, if he were planning that route, he'd put less in Dex and probably a bit more in Con....

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A holy symbol is curiously absent from the list of things a VoP character is permitted. While the Druid's Holly and Mistle has no cost, the Druid still can't have it, odd as it sounds

I'm one of those who consider VoP RAW as having poorly drafted game mechanics language, if for no other reason than it raises some serious internal logic questions.

For that and other reasons I won't go into here, I don't prohibit VoP PCs from owning and using Holy Symbols (as long as they aren't fancy ones) or spellbooks.

 

[Claudius Gaius]

Well, if he wants power, this really doesn't look like the way to go. Of course, if he's going for role-playing power is pretty irrelevant unless the rest of the party needs it. If he just wants the power to be a part of him, rather than in his collection of items, he'd be better off using the Talent rules from The Practical Enchanter: that way he could tailor what he's getting to suit his character.

 

[Arkhandus]

VoP monk is pretty ineffective, especially at higher levels. The biggest problem -- other than lack of offense -- is lack of versatility. VoP doesn't let you fly across that ravine; it doesn't let you easily gain Pro from Fire when the party adventures in Muspelheim; it doesn't let you get Bane ammo to employ against the zombie horde.

And an AC of 22 at level 1 or 2 is no big deal. Cleric in hall plate + heavy shield + pro evil = AC 21. A halfling rogue in chain shirt with mwork buckler, chain shirt, and 20 DEX has AC 21 as well.

......and how do you get those at 1st-level? A starting cleric might have 100-some GP in gear, if he's lucky. He'll be rather lucky if he can afford a chain shirt, cheap weapon, holy symbol, spell component pouch, and maybe a few rations/waterskins. A starting rogue is likewise incapable of getting that stuff to start with.

The average 1st-level character can afford scale mail, a large shield, and basic weaponry. Or studded leather, a large shield, and basic weapons. So maybe AC 19 or so, AC 21 if they're one lucky halfling (and suffering enough points of check penalty to effectively negate their starting ranks in sneaky/movement skills).

 

[Timespike]

A VoP monk will be all defense and no offense, plus VoP is a little like the warlock class. It's unbelievably strong at low levels and becomes less so as the game goes on. A VoP raptoran druid with those same stats would be exceedingly scary. A VoP human monk with them won't be so.

 

[Jack Simth]

A VoP monk will be all defense and no offense, plus VoP is a little like the warlock class. It's unbelievably strong at low levels and becomes less so as the game goes on. A VoP raptoran druid with those same stats would be exceedingly scary. A VoP human monk with them won't be so.

You want something exceedingly scary (for the bad guys)?
Monk-1/Druid-X with Vow of Poverty. Needs to go from LG to NG between levels 1 and 2, but that shouldn't be too hard - you don't lose Monk abilities when you cease to be lawful.

Monk side gives Wis to AC, Vow of Poverty gives AC bonus and stat bonus that stick in all forms. Pick a good Wildshape form to stay in most the time (and there's some very useful Exalted feats for a Druid - like Exalted Wildshape, which grants spell-like abilities of the forms it adds to your list - ah, at-will Dimension Door by way of a Blink Dog....) and you're pretty much set for combat. Wildshape and Druidic spellcasting grant most the special case abilities you'll need - if you can convince your DM that things with a price line of - (such as the Druid's Divine Focus) don't matter in terms of Vow of Poverty, you're set. Of course, for the most part, you can still do better without the Vow...

 

[Evilhalfling]

I have a Wyrmling gold Dragon (racial progression per Dragon magazine) with VoP -
Partially cause I like the idea of a very covetous dragon having to give away treasure, and mostly because he would look stupid carrying all the gear he would need to compete.
VoP keeps him close to similar characters, although dragons make great scouts, poor combatants for their ECL.

1 level in monk would give him +5 AC, but he gets a lot of use from his 1 level in rogue -
+1d8 Sneak Attack (vs evil) for each of 5 attacks is handy. Although this + to hit is poor, the sound of 5 whiffs from the dragon is not uncommon vs High AC foes.

Oh a good rule of thumb for non-optimized characters is : level +10 = poor AC and level +20 = good AC. At high levels this may break down, but it holds pretty well up to 14th.