Vorpal vs fortification armor

[FEADIN]

Hi,

Is there and official ruling or an answer in the FAQ (I don't think so), is the fortification enchantment protecting from the vorpal weapon?
I would say yes because it protects from critical hits and without critical confirmation roll there is no decapitation.

 

[the Jester]

Well, since the description of 'vorpal' specifically mentions that it affects golems and undead creatures, so I would rule that it trumps fortification as well.

 

[Fieari]

For quick reference.

Vorpal: This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off.

The key here is that it specifically mentions two things... one, that this happens on a roll of a natural 20, and that it also requires a confirmation for the critical hit. The thing about rolling the natural 20 does not specify that this is a function of being a critical hit though... in fact, 3.5 went specifically out of its way to make vorpal NOT part of being a critical hit, but something like a nat 20 only "super critical" hit.

I'd say that this is a case of a more specific rule overriding a more general rule, and vorpal effects critical immune creatures. It's not a critical hit, it's a nat 20 hit that must be confirmed as a critical. I'm willing to hear arguments otherwise, but that's my reading.

 

[Nail]

You should also quote the Fortification rule:

Fortification: This suit of armor or shield produces a magical force that protects vital areas of the wearer more effectively. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the wearer, there is a chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

The Vorpal ability requires you to confirm the critical.

The Fortification ability negates a critical hit (some % chance).

If a critical is negated, how can it be confirmed?

 

[FEADIN]

Yes but:
Fortification: This suit of armor or shield produces a magical force that protects vital areas of the wearer more effectively. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the wearer, there is a chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

Vorpal: This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off.
The fact that some creatures can be beheaded by the attack is not linked to their immunity to criticals, they are immune but can be beheaded (no extra damage), the fortification negates, it's different no?

 

[Nail]

The fact that some creatures can be beheaded by the attack is not linked to their immunity to criticals, they are immune but can be beheaded (no extra damage), the fortification negates, it's different no?

But the fortification ability does not make one immune to a critical hit.

It negates a critical hit. That's different.


When a vorpal attack is negated, does it still cut off someone's head?

 

[KarinsDad]

Vorpal is a +5 bonus
Heavy Fortification is a +5 bonus (Moderate is +3, Light is +1)

It seems reasonable that there should be a defense against Vorpal due to the fact that it is a +6 to +10 weapon. Characters who can afford that will often confirm a threat, hence, this is close to a 5% chance of auto-death for anyone, regardless of defenses.

I think the fact that Vorpal explicitly states in its description that it does a critical hit directly indicates that the negation of a critical hit by Fortification trumps it.

The fact that Vorpal also explicitly states that it affects undead and golems does not give it the ability to affect Fortified Armor. It explicitly states an exception to the normal critical immunity rules, it does not give it carte blanche ability to totally ignore critical hit defenses across the board.


Finally, I think that "Swords of Sharpness" and "Vorpal Weapons" are the main reason Fortification was added to the game in 3E. In 2E, there were no defenses to them.

 

[Nail]

...what ever happened to "Swords of Sharpness"?

 

[KarinsDad]

...what ever happened to "Swords of Sharpness"?

Ancient crypts and hidden lairs.



Trust us!

 

[Dark Dragon]

Umm, that's why they've kept Regenerate among the standard 3.5 spells ?