VP/WP in D&D?

[Quickbeam]

mmadsen:
I don't have any real objections to a system that might allow a dragon of Smaug's stature to be felled with one arrow -- it's just not my personal preference in gaming. I want bada** characters and monsters to outlive singular attacks by ordinary weapons. The majority of the folks I game with like the concept of one perfectly placed arrow slaying a dragon, so I play their way using critical effects tables. The VP/WP system we're discussing would eliminate the tables and charts I dislike, but still allow for one flukish attack to change the course of events as per my friends' preference.

As hong notes, we're dealing with an RPG game and not literature, and I'd prefer to keep them separate and different. Just my opinion. But as I stated above and in previous posts, I like the concept of a VP/WP system.

 

[coyote6]

Alternatively, you could say that VP _is_ subdual damage, in the D&D sense of the word. It comes back at 1 point/level/hour, and if you take too much, you get knocked out.

Yes, but you're also possibly dying. Which is a bad thing.

I'd want to figure out some way to keep subdual damage around; it's a nice distinction (subdual vs. lethal) to have, and you'd have to redo some rules without it (e.g., how regeneration works, not to mention spells & abilities that do subdual damage).

Hmm, how _do_ you knock someone out in SW, without beating them nearly to death (i.e., 0 WP)?

Your redone cure spells are nice; they might be a touch too powerful for my tastes, but I'm not sure.

The approach for heal and harm sounds workable (though I'd still give saves ).

Hey! Verbing nouns is a hallowed tradition.

You weren't verbing a noun, you were adjectifying one (which can be done by just adding -ful), and don't you know that adjectification is horrible and demeaning?

Oh, wait. It's objectification that's horrible. My bad.

 

[hong]

Hmm, how _do_ you knock someone out in SW, without beating them nearly to death (i.e., 0 WP)?

You can "set blasters to stun", and then a successful hit forces a Fort save to keep from being knocked out.

Bizarrely, "knocked out" is a distinct state to helpless in SW. You can tie up KO'd characters, but you can't CdG them. It must be a Force thing.

The approach for heal and harm sounds workable (though I'd still give saves ).

Of course. Doesn't everybody?

 

[LostSoul]

I've been using an alternate VP/WP system for years now... it works something like this:

Hit points are rolled as normal.
Your first 10 + Con mod Hit Points are your Body - your actual toughness. (There was a reason it was 10; now this is junked. It probably should be Con.)
The rest of your Hit Points are skill, luck, hand of fate, whatever.

Your "Body Points" heal at a rate of 1 + Con mod per 8 hours of rest.
The rest of your Hit Points heal at a rate of Character Level per hour. (The 12th level characters in my game now heal 1 hit point every five minutes.)

To heal Hit Points, you have to have healed all Body damage first.

If you take a critical hit, at least 1 point of damage is done to your Body Points.

This has worked beautifully, because getting a point or two of Body damage makes the players see their characters as hurt and wounded, badly smashed up, etc. Pretty cool. It plays gritty at times (when you're into Body points) but still allows PCs to act heroic against the peons. (Although I must say that I don't have much healing magic - most characters have only a potion or two, and the Wizard usually carries a few Goodberries around.)

 

[Viking Bastard]

Someone recently mentioned an interesting variation on Wound and Vitality Points. Instead of treating Vitality Points as Hit Points, rolled up as part of character generation, treat them more like Fate Points or Action Dice, as dice of damage you can avoid when you choose to.

I like this idea.

 

[hong]

I've put up something on this topic on my D&D page:

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/vpwp_dnd.htm

If you think I've left anything out, please tell me!

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

What if we used a system where a weapon that crits does some damage to WP and some damage to VP? I'm not sure if half-and-half would be the best way to do this, or some other system...

Maybe have the first die of damage be applied to WP, with the other dice applied to VP? So a longsword would do 1d8 to WP and 1d8 to VP, while a battleaxe would do 1d8 to WP and 2d8 to VP.

Or, would it work better the other way around? Have the axe do 2d8 to WP and 1d8 to VP? That would certainly make the axe a dangerous weapon, but it would be one way to simulate the whole "hacking through large pieces of vital organs" appeal.

On the other hand, since WP are supposed to represent "real" damage, should there be some sort of system to have real injuries when WP damage is taken? Maybe roll on a critical damage table every time WP damage is done? My original thought was once for every point of WP damage, but that seems a little gratuitous.

 

[Desdichado]

The Middle-earth d20 site already has that system. All "regular" damage goes to VP, all "critical" damage goes to WP, so in effect, you're splitting the damage from the blow between them. Makes crit damage 4x weapons extremely powerful, though...