D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.

[MonsterEnvy]

Also wanted to thank Reborn for running things cause I was too busy.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm not going to keep doing this. If you want to challenge him, go do it to him. I let him know about these responses in general but this back and forth...well...it's Father's Day and I have better things to do than stand between you guys in an argument about this sort of stuff

No, you shouldn't. He's wrong and can write me if he wants. Otherwise, I have nothing to prove about it and wasn't arguing anyway...

Have a Happy Father's Day!!!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Also wanted to thank Reborn for running things cause I was too busy.

My pleasure! I never used Roll20 before but it has been fun learning it. I am sure I did things the hard way LOL!

I would drop to 16 (then 13, then 10) because 17 is still tier 4 and Egar will have pretty much the same spells. Knowing what we know now, Vecna would go down even faster.

I would also advise changing the "arena" since those pillars hurt him a lot more than the PCs. But, if you want to keep the starting field the same for a more significant comparison, I get that, too.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

If you want easy access to Vecna’s stats on roll20 you can shift double click him. That brings up his intractable sheet.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes cause he’s Vecna.

I’m not well-informed on Grayhawk lore, is this a thing? Is Vecna known for being able to sense when spells are being cast? Cause if so that’s highly relevant context that might impact my interpretation (and that feels like an oversight not to have mentioned in the dossier).

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I will be home in 40 minutes and be able to more properly get things ready.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I’m not well-informed on Grayhawk lore, is this a thing? Is Vecna known for being able to sense when spells are being cast? Cause if so that’s highly relevant context that might impact my interpretation (and that feels like an oversight not to have mentioned in the dossier).

He’s the Lord of Secrets and one of the top knowers of magic. The adventure that came with says he can simply tell what his opponents are casting and what they are capable of by looking at them.

 

[Mort]

So you're relying on some unspoken designers intent that they meant for this ability to also grant Vecna an adjacent but separate ability to always know when a creature he can see is casting a spell?

If I accept that was the designers intent (to give Vecna the ability to know whenever a creature is casting a spell, even when that spell lacks any components and is cast with Subtle spell), then sure, but I don't accept that.

I see nothing in the ability that provides Vecna any special power to 'automatically and unerringly know when a creature he can see is casting a spell, even when that spell lacks any components and is cast Subtly'.



It doesnt need to. Due to the rule on Reactions and Triggers, the rule is he needs to know a spell is being cast before he can use the ability.

Short of any specific rule that applies to him that expressly says he doesnt need to know (or that he always knows), he needs some way to know.

Reactions per the PHB:

Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else’s. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.

When you take a reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature’s turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.

In Vecna's case the trigger is someone casting a spell (as long as he can see them). Nowhere in the reaction rule does it say it needs to be more than that. You are adding in the knowledge and perception requirement.

Further looking at the rules, the ready action, which happens to use your reaction, requires a perceivable trigger, but this isn't a ready action. It's just a general reaction that happens when a spell is cast.

 

[Flamestrike]

In Vecna's case the trigger is someone casting a spell (as long as he can see them). Nowhere in the reaction rule does it say it needs to be more than that. You are adding in the knowledge and perception requirement.

So you're saying the trigger for a reaction does not have to be something the creature taking the reaction, needs to be aware of?

So I can (for example) take the Readied action to Attack a monster 'If they think about drinking a Pepsi'?

And then, if that monster thinks about drinking a Pepsi (and I have no knowledge that they're thinking this) I can then take my readied action?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Why cant I normal counterspell when that happens? The tell is the same as it is for Vecna.

Unless you know a spell is being cast by a creature, you cant counterspell it, and Vecna cant Dread counter it.s There is no trigger to do so.

If you had the ability to know a spell is being cast, even when it lacks any components, we could definitely talk.

Well, because you ain't Vecna. At any rate, I think we understand each other, even if we don't 100% agree. I'll give you that I'd have ruled it your way if I hadn't heard arguments for the contrary and decided that I liked it better that way. (Because I think Vecna should be better than this statblock turns out to be, so any edge is worth it).