Wad-Cutter bullets - anyone heard of em?

[Shadow64]

OK, a long time ago when I would go shooting with my grandfather I found a few .38 rounds rattleing around in a beat up old carrying case he used. They had a real flat head, pretty much looking like someone had taken a round and chopped the tip off. He called them Wad Cutters and said they were pretty much used for shooting paper targets. But, at the same time, were also real nasty if they were used on a person. (He was in the Marines for 20+ years if i recall, so when he says that I think i can believe him).

Now - my question - any of you ballistic experts out there actually know what I am talking about and what do you think the damage specs would be on a round like that if used as a special type of ammo.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I reccomend not using variant ammunition at all. It's complicated and leads to either a bunch of weird, nit-picky little rules, or it leads to munchkinizing the guns-- which are already plenty deadly enough.

 

[Bagpuss]

Sound like they would act like hollowpoints only less effective. Cutting the tip would mean they would be more likely to expand on impact, meaning greater kinetic energy transfer but reduced penetration.

To be honest if you want a game where ammo makes a difference play cyberpunk or shadowrun. D20 Modern isn't about guns and ammo, the firearms and armour rules do not reflect reality in any shape or form. Which is a good or a bad thing depending on your perspective, but not good if you want to simulate the effects of different ammo types.

 

[Morgenstern]

We have stats for wad cutters (and a bunch of other ammo types) in the Spycraft Modern Arms Guide. Check on page 88.

Hope this helps,

 

[takyris]

Ditto the not wanting to make things hard. You REALLY don't want to have to slow down combat even more by doing complex math.

A good rule of thumb might be the very simple "-2 to hit, +2 to damage" or vice versa. Not being as aerodynamic and having a harder time getting through armor, they take a -2 to hit, but if they do punch through any equipment, they do some nasty damage. Boom. Simple.

-Tacky

 

[Morgenstern]

We went the opposite direction in Spycraft (+2 attack, -2 damage, minimum 1). They are a target shooting round (more accurate), but one that is still potentially quite dangerous. You absolutely don't want to be shot with one, period .

 

[Unseelie]

What's the logic for making it more likely that they would penetrate armor (ie. bonus to hit)?

Making them less likely to penetrate armor but do more damage makes more sense to me.

 

[JeffB]

Yep...Wadcutters are for punching paper.

They are designed to make a nice clean cut hole in paper for scoring purposes.

I wouldn't want to get hit with one, but they are not designed for shocking/stopping power or expansion.

 

[BButler]

What's the logic for making it more likely that they would penetrate armor (ie. bonus to hit)?

Under the Spycraft rules, armor provides damage reduction, so adding a to hit bonus does not equate to penetrating armor. Of course, that makes porting the Spycraft stats over into D20 Modern more difficult.

 

[Thain]

Although I do adore Spycraft, I'd liek to take this opportunity to pimp for Green Ronin... Ultramodern Firearms is a great book, with very good rules for alternate ammo types.

I reccomend not using variant ammunition at all. It's complicated and leads to either a bunch of weird, nit-picky little rules, or it leads to munchkinizing the guns-- which are already plenty deadly enough.

So, you never run military or police type games? I find that variant ammo types can be a real boon to a game, and not just in a combat situation. One particular plot of mine took a sharp twist when the party realized that the assassian they'd dealt with at 2nd level (who had a passion for the Walther WA-2000 and only ever used a particular style of bullet) had returned to menace them years later.

Besides, I just think it adds a lot to the game that the player or NPCs are armed and equiped in a realistic manner.