Wait... This doesn't seem balanced

[ShadowyFigure]

Ok so I'm testing encounters for my upcoming 4e demo with pregen characters and its undead based. So I chose to have level 5 Vampire Spawn Minions. 63 xp each. IN one room (12 sq x 12 sq) the PC's will come across 6 this is a 378 xp encounter making it fair for the limit... apparently. Only Vampire Spawn gain a +2 Bonus to Damage for every one there is, yes thats a +12 for each of them. Now yes they only have 10 hp. But in one turn the pregenrated fighter could end up very... dead, how is this balanced. Will more of these things come up in the 4e mm and will my party survive do you think. They will all be new to 4e but not to D&D.

Of course naturally. I want to keep the encounter as it'll be fun.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

XP isn't everything.

Minions are much scarier and swingier to characters of lower level.
Solos scale down worse at extreme level differences.

 

[keterys]

Also, the vampire minion stats are extremely out of date so there may be they already addressed any problems with them.

Though AoE is still great for clearcutting through them.

 

[Satori5000]

Minions are meant to be put out for characters nearer there level. Thats why you can have so many in a balanced encounter. My idea would be to keep 2-3 Vampire minions and use some basic zombies for the rest. Im not sure if they have stats for them yet, but with 4e its really easy to make them.

 

[Stalker0]

On the other hand, one turn undead from the cleric could vaporize the entire group.

The hope is that 4e's XP based system will be more accurate than 3.5 CR system. But even if that's the case, no system is perfect. As a dm, you still have to look at the monsters your throwing at the party. For example, if you have a cleric or paladin in the group, undead will be a bit easier, as they do lots of radiant damage. Groups of minions will be easier with a wizard in the party. Brutes are more controllable if you have a couple of defenders to soak damage.

As far as this encounter goes, if you have a standard group of party members, teh question is how will the minions attack the party? Will it be in a hallway, will they surround the party, etc.

I figure if the party can survive one round of attacks they should be fine. Area damage + cleric turning or paladin attacks should kill about half of them.

Edit: Actually thinking about it more, do the vampire spawn get +2 damage for each one there is, OR for each one adjacent? That makes A HUGE HUGE difference.

 

[lightblade]

Ok so I'm testing encounters for my upcoming 4e demo with pregen characters and its undead based. So I chose to have level 5 Vampire Spawn Minions. 63 xp each. IN one room (12 sq x 12 sq) the PC's will come across 6 this is a 378 xp encounter making it fair for the limit... apparently. Only Vampire Spawn gain a +2 Bonus to Damage for every one there is, yes thats a +12 for each of them. Now yes they only have 10 hp. But in one turn the pregenrated fighter could end up very... dead, how is this balanced. Will more of these things come up in the 4e mm and will my party survive do you think. They will all be new to 4e but not to D&D.

Of course naturally. I want to keep the encounter as it'll be fun.

I don't think it's balanced; i think you might be breaking some ideas of 4E encounter design. It seems to be: throw one monster of appropriate level per pc, with minions counting for 1/4, elites counting for 2, and solos counting for 4. You're doing the equivalent of throwing one Level 5 monster at them. Just because the xp adds up doesn't necessarily make it a fair fight; it's a lot more swingy. If the wizard gets lucky with an AOE power or something, the PCs walk the few that remain. Otherwise, i think the spawn will murder the table.

 

[Spatula]

Ok so I'm testing encounters for my upcoming 4e demo with pregen characters and its undead based. So I chose to have level 5 Vampire Spawn Minions. 63 xp each.

What? The vampire spawn stats are from the DDM cards, which have no XP value printed on them. We don't know how much XP they are worth.

 

[Lacyon]

Ok so I'm testing encounters for my upcoming 4e demo with pregen characters and its undead based. So I chose to have level 5 Vampire Spawn Minions. 63 xp each. IN one room (12 sq x 12 sq) the PC's will come across 6 this is a 378 xp encounter making it fair for the limit... apparently. Only Vampire Spawn gain a +2 Bonus to Damage for every one there is, yes thats a +12 for each of them. Now yes they only have 10 hp. But in one turn the pregenrated fighter could end up very... dead, how is this balanced. Will more of these things come up in the 4e mm and will my party survive do you think. They will all be new to 4e but not to D&D.

Of course naturally. I want to keep the encounter as it'll be fun.

For one thing, the further up (or down) the level tree you wander, the more likely the system is to produce this kind of swingy result.

If you use this encounter, I recommend giving out the bonus damage only per vampire spawn that's adjacent to the target, so the first one to rush the fighter gets no bonus damage, the second one gets +3, etc, and if the party can split them up they can drastically reduce the damage dealt. That oughtta keep them scary without being nearly so overwhelming. (You may also want to give them maybe 12-13 HP instead of 10 if you do this, but it's probably not a huge deal).

 

[ShadowyFigure]

Minions are meant to be put out for characters nearer there level. Thats why you can have so many in a balanced encounter. My idea would be to keep 2-3 Vampire minions and use some basic zombies for the rest. Im not sure if they have stats for them yet, but with 4e its really easy to make them.

Way ahead of you, one look through the monsters and more and I decide... hmmm zombie minions. 3 Vampire Spawns and a couple zombie minions may be good.

Edit: Actually thinking about it more, do the vampire spawn get +2 damage for each one there is, OR for each one adjacent? That makes A HUGE HUGE difference.

Yup there is a cleric. And its +2 for each one.

What? The vampire spawn stats are from the DDM cards, which have no XP value printed on them. We don't know how much XP they are worth.

PHB Lite 5th Level Minion is worth 63xp.

I am going to play test it by my self, see how it goes as I know I can throw 2 level 6 monsters at them and they can beat it though its a hard encounter.

 

[keterys]

Hmm, a 5th level minion should be 50xp. 200 xp / 4.

Edit: Eh, but they're actually 6th. Still, DDM stats bad. Makes me very sad, I was really hoping they'd be a treasure trove of good stuff