Morgenstern, maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like your feat chain will accumulate damage <i>very</i> slowly. 1d6 per round, with successful hits reducing that amount is not likely to add up to anything. And spending a whole extra feat to get +1 on that die roll is rather weak; wouldn't it be better to make it 2d6 instead of 1d6+1? Am I reading it wrong? Is there something I'm missing?
'wait, wait, attack' fighting style?
- Thread starter rkanodia
- Start date
BSF
Explorer
Morgenstern - It does seem like it will take you a long time to accumlate much extra damage. Up to the point where you gain iterative attacks, this might be marginally helpful if you use weapons that only do a d6 in damage. But, with a longsword, you are sacrificing your opportunity to attack and do d8 + str bonus without gaining anything except the possibility to do ability damage down the road. As a player, I can't see ever wanting to take this feat chain.
Darklone - Patience looks interesting, but Know your enemy seems very conservative. I think I am missing the point of the feat because it seems to just give you the same bonus as Patience (perhaps more than once?) but you have given up 3 rounds of opportunity to hit your opponent.
Handforged - I am starting to think that the benefits from Eye of the Hurricane should take affect immediately and should last through the encounter. The more you study your opponent, the easier it is to avoid his attacks and the easier it is to hit him. This gives you an incentive to full-defense one round and gain some small bonuses, but the longer you wait, the more dangerous you become. It could make for some interesting combats. If you specify 3-4 ranks of Sense Motive as a Prerequisite, you end up with a 6-8th level fighter that had to dump a fair amount of skills to get the feat. Or a multiclass. Leave the BAB prerequisite. Perhaps, we would also want to add Combat Expertise as a Prerequisite for Eye of the Hurricane. Not too sure yet.
rkanodia - So far, what has fit your vision for your NPC the best?
Darklone - Patience looks interesting, but Know your enemy seems very conservative. I think I am missing the point of the feat because it seems to just give you the same bonus as Patience (perhaps more than once?) but you have given up 3 rounds of opportunity to hit your opponent.
Handforged - I am starting to think that the benefits from Eye of the Hurricane should take affect immediately and should last through the encounter. The more you study your opponent, the easier it is to avoid his attacks and the easier it is to hit him. This gives you an incentive to full-defense one round and gain some small bonuses, but the longer you wait, the more dangerous you become. It could make for some interesting combats. If you specify 3-4 ranks of Sense Motive as a Prerequisite, you end up with a 6-8th level fighter that had to dump a fair amount of skills to get the feat. Or a multiclass. Leave the BAB prerequisite. Perhaps, we would also want to add Combat Expertise as a Prerequisite for Eye of the Hurricane. Not too sure yet.
rkanodia - So far, what has fit your vision for your NPC the best?
Morgenstern
First Post
rkanodia said:
Well, the idea was that the character was getting the benefits of full defense - basically was piling up extra damage with no roll to hit at all, and was hard to hit while he did it as a bargain. Giving that it's a whole feat to get +2 on each hit, something that adds a cumulative 3.5 points per round is almost exactly on par... Hmm. once you have itterative attacks, You're getting +2 damage at full bonus, and +2 at -5 to hit, and must take a full attack... So functionally +3.5 (one +2 at full percentage, on at -25% chance of hitting).This one will deliver all of it's damage bonus and allow you to move that turn to get there and to it.
Still, if you treat Full defense as a fundamentally inferior option (which sadly it often is) then you'l want the damage storage to ranp up a little. I was thinking 2d4 (5 points per round) wouldn't be excessive. Regardless, it would be grossly out of balance to try and compare the damage being stored to the damage inflicted if you full attacked for a round - you're getting a defensive bonus way higher than any feat gives by fighting defensively.
But still, I think it'll do what you want: create a fighter who is dang hard to hit (full defensing) who stays in close "studying you" and then delivers a mean hit that doesn't require a crit or any other exotic circumstance.
The main benefit for the Sudden Death was to raise the strored damage cap, the +1 being just a minor perk, not the main bonus.
Does the ability damage trick work for you? Seems like a fun one for taunting fighters.
Still, let me fiddle with it
.Opportune Moment
You have the patience to wait for the perfect moment to strike...
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +4 or better, Power Attack
Benefit: While taking the full defense action, as a free action you may target one opponent you threaten with a readied melee weapon. You gain a bonus equal to your base attack bonus added to the damage of your next melee attack against this opponent. This damage is aplied after any multipliers for a critical hit. This bonus is cumulative with itself, but may not exceed twice your base attack bonus. Any time you take damage, this bonus is reduced by an equal amount. You lose this bonus after your first attack on this opponent, successful or not, if you target a different opponent with this feat, or if you lose line of sight to your current target.
Sudden Death
When you finally choose to strike, its the end for your foes.
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +6 or better, Opportune Moment
Benefit: When using the Opportune Moment feat, the maximum bonus you may add to an attack with the Opportune Moment feat is equal to your base attack bonus x4.
Cautious Guard
When on your guard, you are excedingly difficult to harm.
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +9 or better, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: When you declare a full defense action, you gain Fortification (50%) as the shield and armor effect of the same name until your next action.
Perfect Guard
It is incredibly difficult to get a telling blow against you when you are prepared.
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +15 or better, Cautious Guard, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: When you declare a full defense action, you become immune to critical hits until your next action.
Eh. Something to play with anyway
.
Darklone
Registered User
Looks like I explained it wrong. Patience only works once against one opponent, usually in the first round of combat. Know your Enemy works after the third round of combat... and gives a lesser bonus.BardStephenFox said:
These feats work best if you are a fighter/multiclass (for tumble) with heavy armour, sword & large shield plus Improved Shield bash. Use fighting defensively plus Expertise plus Dodge Bonus, Shield Specialisation gives another +2 ... And with Improved TWF you´ll get 4 attacks at level 6. You´ll only hit on a natural 20 (as will your opponent hopefully), so make sure you took full Power Attack
I used a human warrior 6 once and beat the barbarian halforc of my group with it...
Hmm. AC = 10+ 8 (full plate) + 1 (dex) + 2 (large shield) + 2 (shield spec) + 1 (Dodge) + 5 (Expertise) + 3 (Fight def. + tumble) = AC 32. Looks like I forgot some things, I thought you could reach AC 36...
Without magical bonuses and the following feats:
Power Attack, Dodge, Shield Spec, TWF, ITWF, Improved Shield bash, Combat Expertise. 7 feats... means human fighter level 6 has one feat left. I suggest Skill Prodigy for some additional class skills (Tumble!).
Hmm. Try a halfling, all those dodge bonuses should be good enough to keep you from getting tripped
orangefruitbat
Adventurer
Rd 1) Full Defense, Uses Improved Feint
Rd 2) Quickened True Strike, followed by Power attack for mundo damage
Now if you describe it correctly, it gives you exactly what you want, without having any new rules.
Rd 2) Quickened True Strike, followed by Power attack for mundo damage
Now if you describe it correctly, it gives you exactly what you want, without having any new rules.
orangefruitbat said:
That's a good point. Unfortunately, my campaign is not of sufficient level for a threatening, yet not dominatingly powerful villain to have access to fifth-level spells slots and still fight half-decently in melee. But that may be a better approach than what I have presently been working on. Perhaps a smaller, less-wordy feat could take part of the place of the True Strike.
Power Stance: You can land punishing blows at the cost of speed and mobility.
Prerequisite: Power Attack, BAB 5+.
Benefit: as a move-equivalent action, you manuver your weapon (which you may draw as part of this action, if it is not drawn already) into a position from which you can make extremely powerful attacks (a two-handed sword may be hefted over one shoulder, a glaive spun above the head, etc). Your first attack made on each round gets a +2 bonus to attack and damage. Power Stance automatically ends if you move more than your base speed in one round, and you may return to a normal stance as a free action, but only at the start of your turn.
Drawback: You may not make attacks of opportunity during a Power Stance, although you continue to threaten your normal area.
Combine that with Defensive Strike, and it's starting to look pretty attractive. With Power Attack and a two-handed weapon, you could get +0 attack, +14 damage, defender gets no Dex or dodge bonus to AC.
My take?
Tumble on full defensive gives like +6 to AC.
Combat expertise only gives +4, but lets you attack.
So, tumble, dodge, move more than 10' so your opponent only gets one attack.
A defender weapon also helps, it stacks with everything.
Doesn't Monkey Fist allow you to use a weapon one size larger?
When the time comes right, Rage (you are a barbarian when you were a kid, right?), draw that Huge Great sword, power attack (double damage), defender weapon to 'to hit', impoved critical, roll a 16.
Feats needed:
Combat expertise
Power attack
Monkey Fist
Improved critical
Weapon focus, weapon specialization
You need a +8 to hit, so, BBG is 8th level, with a 20 Strength (magic item) and a +4 defender
20 to hit.
Figure a 50/50 chance to hit the good guy, AC 24 on him, damage would be:
3D6+22. Roll a 17 and do 6D6+44, easy.
Or use a huge great axe or something, roll a 19 and get
2D8+22 x 3, or 6D8+66 Hello massive damage rules.
More later,
Vahktang
Tumble on full defensive gives like +6 to AC.
Combat expertise only gives +4, but lets you attack.
So, tumble, dodge, move more than 10' so your opponent only gets one attack.
A defender weapon also helps, it stacks with everything.
Doesn't Monkey Fist allow you to use a weapon one size larger?
When the time comes right, Rage (you are a barbarian when you were a kid, right?), draw that Huge Great sword, power attack (double damage), defender weapon to 'to hit', impoved critical, roll a 16.
Feats needed:
Combat expertise
Power attack
Monkey Fist
Improved critical
Weapon focus, weapon specialization
You need a +8 to hit, so, BBG is 8th level, with a 20 Strength (magic item) and a +4 defender
20 to hit.
Figure a 50/50 chance to hit the good guy, AC 24 on him, damage would be:
3D6+22. Roll a 17 and do 6D6+44, easy.
Or use a huge great axe or something, roll a 19 and get
2D8+22 x 3, or 6D8+66 Hello massive damage rules.
More later,
Vahktang
Vahktang, that's a pretty good idea.
Sorry to keep beating on this dead horse, but I have one final question for all you folks who have commented on this thread. If you were to convert the Power Surge ability of the kensai (from Complete Warrior) into a feat, what prereqs would it have, and what would the duration be? Would you leave it as a Concentration check, or would it be limited by uses per day? Move-equivalent action, or standard action?
Sorry to keep beating on this dead horse, but I have one final question for all you folks who have commented on this thread. If you were to convert the Power Surge ability of the kensai (from Complete Warrior) into a feat, what prereqs would it have, and what would the duration be? Would you leave it as a Concentration check, or would it be limited by uses per day? Move-equivalent action, or standard action?
