D&D 5E Wall of Force and spells

[Paul Farquhar]

That seems to be a glaring oversight in the write-up. The missiles originate from the caster.

It doesn't matter where the missiles originate. The spell originates at the caster, as per general spellcasting rules.

 

[Lanefan]

It doesn't matter where the missiles originate. The spell originates at the caster, as per general spellcasting rules.

True, but when there's something physical hitting the target it would be useful to know where that something physical originates.

 

[Teemu]

If you do allow some or all damaging spells to pass through a Wall of Force, the spell becomes even more powerful than it already is. Wall of Force lasts for 10 minutes, with concentration -- if you can catch all your (remaining) enemies within it, which is not uncommon, you basically turn Wall of Force into a level 5 no-save death spell. The majority of enemies won't have the capability to break the caster's concentration, so that leaves the party with 10 minutes of cantrip damage. Few enemies can withstand that, and neither can players and DMs as they roll attacks, saves, and damage over and over again (10 minutes is 100 rounds).

Even if you discard all the rules evidence, I believe the intent behind Wall of Force has to be that it blocks all forms of attack, barring the very few exceptions. Otherwise the spell becomes ludicrously overpowered, but in a horribly annoying way.

 

[Lanefan]

If you do allow some or all damaging spells to pass through a Wall of Force, the spell becomes even more powerful than it already is. Wall of Force lasts for 10 minutes, with concentration -- if you can catch all your (remaining) enemies within it, which is not uncommon, you basically turn Wall of Force into a level 5 no-save death spell. The majority of enemies won't have the capability to break the caster's concentration, so that leaves the party with 10 minutes of cantrip damage. Few enemies can withstand that, and neither can players and DMs as they roll attacks, saves, and damage over and over again (10 minutes is 100 rounds).

Presuming, of course, that those trapped inside don't have casters of their own.

It's starting to occur to me that if one wants to allow spells to pass through a WoF the obvious corollary ruling - to prevent exactly what's described in the quote - would be to ban the hemispherical version and only allow the flat wall. That way it becomes much harder to completely trap anyone behind it.

 

[Baron Opal II]

At one point in time, dimension door specifically took a short cut through another dimension and wall of force specifically existed there as well. I take it this is no longer true in 5e? Because for a while you could not bypass the wall in that manner.

 

[Hussar]

Presuming, of course, that those trapped inside don't have casters of their own.

It's starting to occur to me that if one wants to allow spells to pass through a WoF the obvious corollary ruling - to prevent exactly what's described in the quote - would be to ban the hemispherical version and only allow the flat wall. That way it becomes much harder to completely trap anyone behind it.

99.99% of baddies don't have spells.

Pointing out that there are .01% of baddies that do have spells does not really change anything. Flat wall might work, but, then, you just make the wall 20 feet high. Sure, that won't stop flyers, but, it will work far more often than not - it would also work very well indoors where you have 10 foot ceilings.

You'd have to make it so that the wall can't turn - you can't create boxes with it - just a single flat plane.

 

[Lanefan]

99.99% of baddies don't have spells.

Pointing out that there are .01% of baddies that do have spells does not really change anything. Flat wall might work, but, then, you just make the wall 20 feet high. Sure, that won't stop flyers, but, it will work far more often than not - it would also work very well indoors where you have 10 foot ceilings.

You'd have to make it so that the wall can't turn - you can't create boxes with it - just a single flat plane.

The bolded is exactly what I just suggested. Flat plane and hemisphere are the only options anyway, aren't they?

The only way to create a vertical cylinder with them would be to cast three in a triangle, or four in a square shape, etc.; with yet another to provide a roof if needed to prevent flying or climbing out. Not many casters will be able to pull that off in a hurry.

 

[Hussar]

The bolded is exactly what I just suggested. Flat plane and hemisphere are the only options anyway, aren't they?

The only way to create a vertical cylinder with them would be to cast three in a triangle, or four in a square shape, etc.; with yet another to provide a roof if needed to prevent flying or climbing out. Not many casters will be able to pull that off in a hurry.

Well, no technically, you could build a box with four sides, as the spell is written, I think... one sec, I might be remembering earlier versions.

Nope, I'm right. You build the wall out of 10x10 foot panels, and so long as they are contiguous with each other, you're allowed to make any shape you like. You get 10 panels, so, you can easily make a 10x10x10 cube for any medium or large opponent that could never escape. You could make it 10x20x10 to catch a larger group. Or just not put a bottom on it and make it larger still.

In other words, the spell is just too freaking powerful as written.

 

[Lanefan]

Well, no technically, you could build a box with four sides, as the spell is written, I think... one sec, I might be remembering earlier versions.

Nope, I'm right. You build the wall out of 10x10 foot panels, and so long as they are contiguous with each other, you're allowed to make any shape you like.

Ah. I always interpreted "wall" (for all Wall spells) as meaning a single flat wall, built in this case out of 10x10 panes. That WoF also allows a hemisphere is an exception.

You get 10 panels, so, you can easily make a 10x10x10 cube for any medium or large opponent that could never escape. You could make it 10x20x10 to catch a larger group. Or just not put a bottom on it and make it larger still.

In other words, the spell is just too freaking powerful as written.

Any idea if this is RAI or just an(other) oversight in RAW?

 

[James Gasik]

Ah. I always interpreted "wall" (for all Wall spells) as meaning a single flat wall, built in this case out of 10x10 panes. That WoF also allows a hemisphere is an exception.

Any idea if this is RAI or just an(other) oversight in RAW?

Hard to say, but they didn't bother to use this wording from 3.5, and they deliberately made it able to float in the air for some reason: "The caster can form the wall into a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10-foot square per level. The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails."

Actually, unrelated question but, why does a Wall of Force have thickness? I always assumed that, being a construct of force, it could be effectively two-dimensional, but I just noticed the 5e version specifies that it's 1/4 inch thick and I'm not sure why it matters.