D&D 5E Wall of Force and spells

[TaranTheWanderer]

Just because light waves happen to go through it does not mean it is a clear path. Transparent does not negate it being an obstacle, full cover has nothing to do with what you can or cannot see.

As per the rules, you cannot target someone with a spell if they have total cover - full stop - whether you can see them perfectly fine or not.

The question then becomes 'what counts as cover'.

I didn't read through all the posts so maybe someone pointed this out but the spell description specifically says that,

'Nothing can physically pass through the wall'.

I'm actually now more convinced than ever that non-physical spells can pass through. I feel that this can be read as an example of the 'specific over the general'. The spell description is describing an exception to the general rule by stipulating that the wall only bars the physical and not other spells that might need direct line of effect - like charm person, for example. For non-physical spells, they are not considered to have full cover.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Reading some of the points in this thread leads me to believe a blind caster can't in fact do very much at all. I'm not sure that's the intent, as otherwise spells like Blindness, Darkness, and so forth suddenly become a lot more powerful than they're probably supposed to be.

They can't. And why you can use minor illusion to create a 5X5 box to stand in so that spellcasters can't use target(creature) spells on you.

 

[ECMO3]

How far down the rabbit hole do we go? If nothing can penetrate the wall then it should be black and completely dark inside the dome. After all, photons are a thing and are blocked by solid objects. Doesn’t matter if the wall is invisible- light cannot pass.

Nothing physical. Light is not physical, sound is physical.

 

[Oofta]

I didn't read through all the posts so maybe someone pointed this out but the spell description specifically says that,

'Nothing can physically pass through the wall'.

I'm actually now more convinced than ever that non-physical spells can pass through. I feel that this can be read as an example of the 'specific over the general'. The spell description is describing an exception to the general rule by stipulating that the wall only bars the physical and not other spells that might need direct line of effect - like charm person, for example. For non-physical spells, they are not considered to have full cover.

I'm not going to bother quoting everything, but you have to have a clear path to the target. For some spells the target is self, for spells with a range the wall of force is an obstacle that completely blocks the line of effect. The rules are pretty clear, casting a spell with range is no different from making a ranged weapon attack. If you can't hit the target with an arrow, you can't target it with a spell.

 

[Hussar]

Reading some of the points in this thread leads me to believe a blind caster can't in fact do very much at all. I'm not sure that's the intent, as otherwise spells like Blindness, Darkness, and so forth suddenly become a lot more powerful than they're probably supposed to be.

No that is absolutely the intent. Blind casters can’t cast a very large swath of spells. A caster in a dark room is basically limited to aoe spells or personal effects.

 

[Hussar]

Unless those within have a light source, of course...

But that light would be invisible from the outside.

 

[Hussar]

Nothing physical. Light is not physical, sound is physical.

There is an entire branch of science that would like a word.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I'm not going to bother quoting everything, but you have to have a clear path to the target.

Except when an ability stipulates an exception. That's my point. I can totally see a DM interpreting it that way.

 

[Lanefan]

No that is absolutely the intent. Blind casters can’t cast a very large swath of spells. A caster in a dark room is basically limited to aoe spells or personal effects.

So how does a blind character - i.e. a character blind from birth - ever become a viable caster? Or can't they?

 

[Hussar]

So how does a blind character - i.e. a character blind from birth - ever become a viable caster? Or can't they?

You can still cast spells but not targeted ones.

That’s like asking how does a blind character become a viable archer.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah D&D doesn't like blind swordsman tropes either; Zatoichi would have a hard time in a 5e game.

 

[ECMO3]

Yeah D&D doesn't like blind swordsman tropes either; Zatoichi would have a hard time in a 5e game.

Blind Swordsman are pretty easy to do effectively as a fighter. Blind Casters are more difficult, but still doable as long as you are not a cleric. Getting to level 3 will be really difficult though.

For a fighter just take the blind fighting style. You will be gimped some because you can only see 10 feet but it is playable.

A blind caster except Cleric or Warlock can get the spell darkvision which would allow them to see out to 60 feet as long as they were not in bright light. A blind character can also get the devil's sight invocation which would let them see in darkness, they could pair this with the darkness spell pretty effectively.

A Blind character will not be optimal, but it is not all that debilitating either considering the dice. After level 3, I would say a Blind character who rolls abilities in the 95 percental (85 total points on abilities) and takes things like the stuff above to mitigate it, is generally going to be better than a character who rolls in the 5 percental (62 points)

 

[James Gasik]

Blind Swordsman are pretty easy to do effectively as a fighter. Blind Casters are more difficult, but still doable as long as you are not a cleric. Getting to level 3 will be really difficult though.

For a fighter just take the blind fighting style. You will be gimped some because you can only see 10 feet but it is playable.

A blind caster except Cleric or Warlock can get the spell darkvision which would allow them to see out to 60 feet as long as they were not in bright light. A blind character can also get the devil's sight invocation which would let them see in darkness, they could pair this with the darkness spell pretty effectively.

Blindsight within 10' is cool, but I wouldn't call such a character "gimped a little", considering that anyone can become hidden from such a character by moving more than 10' away. They'd certainly be ambushed constantly by ranged attackers, and they'd need a sighted character to tell them where distant enemies are.

The rules don't cover this, but I can 't imagine using the Dash action when you're always at risk of running into solid obstacles, lol.

But I will concede that you could play such a character, but I think you'd be better off in PF1e where you can get Feats like Blinded Master which grants 30' blindsight (along with accompanying Feats that grant scent, bonuses on non-visual Perception checks, etc.).

 

[Lanefan]

A blind caster except Cleric or Warlock can get the spell darkvision which would allow them to see out to 60 feet as long as they were not in bright light. A blind character can also get the devil's sight invocation which would let them see in darkness, they could pair this with the darkness spell pretty effectively.

I always kind of assumed that things like darkvision required functional (and open) eyes in order to be of any use.

Now if a blind character could somehow pick up echolocation, like what a bat uses, that would be cool.

 

[ECMO3]

I always kind of assumed that things like darkvision required functional (and open) eyes in order to be of any use.

Now if a blind character could somehow pick up echolocation, like what a bat uses, that would be cool.

A blind Wizard or Warlock with Find Familiar can summon a Bat and see through its senses. They can't really cast spells like that though because it ends at the begining of their turn.

 

[ECMO3]

Blindsight within 10' is cool, but I wouldn't call such a character "gimped a little", considering that anyone can become hidden from such a character by moving more than 10' away. They'd certainly be ambushed constantly by ranged attackers, and they'd need a sighted character to tell them where distant enemies are.

RAW they would need to take the hide action to be hidden and anyone who attacks has their location revealed (unless they have the Skulker Feat). If they moved 10 feet away they would be unseen and fully obscured, which is still bad of course, but the fighter would know where they were if they were attacking him.

Alert Feat would also make it so unseen attackers don't have advantage on attacks on you. You would still have disadvantage unless you closed within 10 feet though.

The Darkness spell with alert and blind fighting would give you an advantage on attacks against enemies within 10 feet, while all enemies would have disadvantage attacking you.

 

[Lanefan]

A blind Wizard or Warlock with Find Familiar can summon a Bat and see through its senses. They can't really cast spells like that though because it ends at the begining of their turn.

Yeah, to be any use this feature would have to be "always on".

 

[Hussar]

Note I did specify blind archer.

 

[James Gasik]

Note I did specify blind archer.

Oh I know, I was just saying blind anyone isn't really well supported by the rules.

 

[Oofta]

Except when an ability stipulates an exception. That's my point. I can totally see a DM interpreting it that way.

Most spells are either "range/area" of "self" or "___ feet". Anything with a range of feet must have, as explained in chapter 10 of the PHB, a clear path to the target.

But yes, there are few like Sending have a range of "unlimited", which to be consistent should be "self" IMHO. A DM can also house rule all they want of course.