D&D 5E Wall of Force and spells

[Stalker0]

This makes me think, anything once you reach a certain distance away would have total cover, if from nothing else than the curvature of the earth.

So are there any spells that "target" things reasonably far away, that under this reasoning would no longer work?

Another thought, aside from the globe wall of force, couldn't magic that wasn't a "physical" thing just go around the wall?

For example, I can see something standing on the other side of the wall, why cant I charm person it? I mean magic doesn't have to follow straight lines in all examples, or things like sending a message to a person on another continent wouldn't work.

Fantasy world might not be earth, but generally on earth you can still see the horizon some 3-5 kilometers away, more than sufficient to handle any dnd spell that actually has a target where this clause matters.

In terms of cover, here is the relevant passage:

Cover​

Walls, trees, creatures, and other obstacles can provide cover during combat, making a target more difficult to harm. A target can benefit from cover only when an attack or other effect originates on the opposite side of the cover.


The rules don't allow for the notion of a "curveball", if the obstacle is directly between you and the target....its total cover.

As far as the sending spell goes: It has an unlimited range and no target. Therefore, the rules regarding targets and cover does not apply, which is why you can send to anyone anywhere.

 

[Maxperson]

Let's break the sentence down. First, as written:

If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.

Now, clause by clause noting the logic:

If [conditional] you place an area of effect [action] at a point that you can’t see [condition 1] and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, [condition 2] [then] the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.

Both conditions must be met or else the "then" does not happen. "And" does NOT mean "and/or"; if it meant and/or it would say and/or (at least I bloody well hope it would!).

p.s. I was wondering when you'd chime in here, given how much you love discussions of wording.

From the combat section dealing with cover...

"A target with total cover can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell."

It doesn't matter if you can see it or not, you can't target it.

And also....

"To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover."

That's the first sentence. It is prior to the one you are quoting and doesn't stop just because you have the "if" there. The sentence you are quoting above only comes into play if you are shooting blind. That's what it means when it says, "If you place the area of effect at a point that you can't see..." If you CAN see it, that sentence never comes into play.

In either case the total cover of a wall of force will stop any affect from going through it. Specific beats general and the spell specifically says...

"Nothing can physically pass through the wall. It is immune to all damage and can't be dispelled by dispel magic."

So to sum up. You can't target anything behind a wall of force because it has total cover, and area spells won't go through it because nothing can physically pass the wall.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why does this matter though?

Because of the clear path to target rule, cited above. To be targeted by a Psychic Lance, two separate conditions must be fulfilled: seeing the target, and a clear path. Knowing the target's name substitutes for the first, but not the second.

Most of the people I have played with assume the say a name is designed to target enemies who are around the corner or inside a room and have full cover.

Assuming is not a substitution for reading the rulebook. It's certainly legitimate to houserule that psionics can work through a Wall of Force, but it aint RAW.

There are lots of situations when it is useful to be able to target targets that you cannot see but are not in cover:

• The target is invisible
• The target is in darkness
• The caster is blinded
• etc

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Nothing can physically pass through the wall.

Psionics aint physical...

 

[Maxperson]

Psionics aint physical...

It's not intangible if it doesn't say so. It's a magic spell that does psychic damage when the energy physically strikes the target. It strikes physically and then attacks the mind.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's not intangible if it doesn't say so.

"Thought is physical" fails the "does it make narrative sense?" test.

It's a magic spell that does psychic damage when the energy physically strikes the target.

A reasonable interpretation. Personally, I would go with "Wall of Force can also block intangible effects". Basically, just cut the word "physical". I'm pretty sure Charm Person doesn't involve hitting someone with physical energy.

Or nerf the spell and rule it only blocks physical attacks, and let spells pass through. An interpretation that is also consistent with the wording, but probably not RAI.

 

[Maxperson]

"Thought is physical" fails the "does it make narrative sense?" test.

If it was thought it wouldn't start at the forehead and then travel up to 120 feet. It's not thought, at best it's thought given physical form. It's a shimmering lance of power for pete's sake. If you want an example of something that does psychic damage without being physical look at Vicious Mockery, though it still fails because you can't target something behind total cover regardless of tangibility.

A reasonable interpretation. Personally, I would go with "Wall of Force can also block intangible effects".

That works, too. However you want to interpret it, there's no getting around...

"A target with total cover can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell."

You simply can't target it with either Viscious Mockery or the Psychic Lance.

 

[Lanefan]

If it was thought it wouldn't start at the forehead and then travel up to 120 feet. It's not thought, at best it's thought given physical form. It's a shimmering lance of power for pete's sake. If you want an example of something that does psychic damage without being physical look at Vicious Mockery, though it still fails because you can't target something behind total cover regardless of tangibility.

That works, too. However you want to interpret it, there's no getting around...

"A target with total cover can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell."

You simply can't target it with either Viscious Mockery or the Psychic Lance.

Which raises another odd and probably fairly common situation where the rules make little or no narrative sense: when a spell is purely sonic e.g. Command or many Bard spells/effects, it by RAW can't target or affect someone hiding behind a tree or boulder even though a) sound goes around corners way better than light does and thus b) said target can clearly hear it.

 

[cbwjm]

Which raises another odd and probably fairly common situation where the rules make little or no narrative sense: when a spell is purely sonic e.g. Command or many Bard spells/effects, it by RAW can't target or affect someone hiding behind a tree or boulder even though a) sound goes around corners way better than light does and thus b) said target can clearly hear it.

That would be great, trapping someone in a wall of force then a few casters gather round and pummel the one trapped with thunderwaves or other thunder damage spells.

 

[Lanefan]

That would be great, trapping someone in a wall of force then a few casters gather round and pummel the one trapped with thunderwaves or other thunder damage spells.

Except anything trapped in a hemispherical WoF is completely enclosed by the wall, so no way for the sound to usefully get in.

With a flat WoF this would work, only the person wouldn't be trapped.