The Forsaken One
Explorer
Play epic levels and your caster will get it's ass kicked hands down by every respectable fighter type.
Wall of Force... best 5th lvl spell !
- Thread starter Rashak Mani
- Start date
Re
Hong,
I see now. Yes, magic is as powerful or impotent as the world designer wishes it to be. In D and D, it is the most powerful force in the entire gameworld. Nothing can match it except artifacts and powerful evil outsiders or undead.
At epic levels warrior types will crush arcane casters. I didn't notice that in the ELH. You want to show me a thread where this is discussed? I would enjoy seeing how this is done.
I have the ELH and I all I did was salivate at the various magic feats that make arcane casters even more powerful than they were prior. They have feats in there where you can cast two spells per round without haste. That is amazing.
Hong,
I see now. Yes, magic is as powerful or impotent as the world designer wishes it to be. In D and D, it is the most powerful force in the entire gameworld. Nothing can match it except artifacts and powerful evil outsiders or undead.
At epic levels warrior types will crush arcane casters. I didn't notice that in the ELH. You want to show me a thread where this is discussed? I would enjoy seeing how this is done.
I have the ELH and I all I did was salivate at the various magic feats that make arcane casters even more powerful than they were prior. They have feats in there where you can cast two spells per round without haste. That is amazing.
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Re: Re
True. What a good thing, then, that in my D&D game world, wizards and clerics aren't the only people who can use magic. As in most D&D game worlds.
Now tell me again how a Runequest mage is 100% guaranteed to kick the snot out of a Runequest barbarian.
Celtavian said:
True. What a good thing, then, that in my D&D game world, wizards and clerics aren't the only people who can use magic. As in most D&D game worlds.
Now tell me again how a Runequest mage is 100% guaranteed to kick the snot out of a Runequest barbarian.
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Personally, I don't permit the offensive version of Wall of Force.
Two reasons:
Firstly, it's easily worth of 5th level status as a utility/defensive spell. Need a time-out from combat to buff yourself, or for the cleric to heal the wounded, or have a few Delayed Blast Fireballs ready? Use Wall of Force (getting people to gather round if need be). In conjunction with Ghostform and/or Haste, it's a great tactical spell (Ghostform= hemisphere, go through the floor; Haste=cast spell then WoF). As a utility spell, it's also great. If the enemies are battering down the doors, Arcane Lock may not do the trick (especially if the enemy are Power Attacking greataxe-wielding barbarians); Wall of Force will plug the gap nicely.
Secondly, there are other spells which pull this trick. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere at 4th level permits a save; Forcecage at 7th level does not. There is no way that I would permit a 5th level spell to do what a 7th level spell does, especially given the material component cost of Forcecage. Since there is no save specified in the text of WoF, it is implicit therefore that the designer did not intend it to be used offensively. They surely couldn't be that stupid.
Two reasons:
Firstly, it's easily worth of 5th level status as a utility/defensive spell. Need a time-out from combat to buff yourself, or for the cleric to heal the wounded, or have a few Delayed Blast Fireballs ready? Use Wall of Force (getting people to gather round if need be). In conjunction with Ghostform and/or Haste, it's a great tactical spell (Ghostform= hemisphere, go through the floor; Haste=cast spell then WoF). As a utility spell, it's also great. If the enemies are battering down the doors, Arcane Lock may not do the trick (especially if the enemy are Power Attacking greataxe-wielding barbarians); Wall of Force will plug the gap nicely.
Secondly, there are other spells which pull this trick. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere at 4th level permits a save; Forcecage at 7th level does not. There is no way that I would permit a 5th level spell to do what a 7th level spell does, especially given the material component cost of Forcecage. Since there is no save specified in the text of WoF, it is implicit therefore that the designer did not intend it to be used offensively. They surely couldn't be that stupid.
Dark Dragon
Explorer
WoF is just nasty in combat because it's a no save spell. Favorite tactic in my group: wizard casts WoF (hemisphere) over powerful opponent (especially fighter types, giants, and so on) and leaves a very few centimeters free space between ground and hemisphere. Through this small gap he then casts one or two flashy spells (e.g. Fireball) or summons a monster under the sphere (making it a little arena)...=> powerful troll fighter (CR 15) got his a*s kicked by little level 10 wizzie.
As a DM, I try to make it as hard as possible that this tactic works. Enemy casters had used this tactic one time...it seems that it opened our wizards eyes
I fully agree that WoF should either get a save or the hemispherical version shouldn't be available anymore.
As a DM, I try to make it as hard as possible that this tactic works. Enemy casters had used this tactic one time...it seems that it opened our wizards eyes
I fully agree that WoF should either get a save or the hemispherical version shouldn't be available anymore.
Rashak Mani
First Post
Any errata on this matter ? DnDFAQ and PHB errata have nothing.
I kind of agree with the idea that you can´t use it as a sphere on someone on ground. Still the hemisphere will stop most comers... in my case I tried to use sphere because the creature was ethereal and invisible at that moment.
Another neat tactic of course is to put a Wall of Force 15 ft away from a Fireball firing Mage... nasty surprise.
The description of the spell seems to indicate that a perfect sphere shape must be used ? Its hard to get someone under a 5ft high half dome. Must the Wall be straight as well ? How malleable can it be ?
I kind of agree with the idea that you can´t use it as a sphere on someone on ground. Still the hemisphere will stop most comers... in my case I tried to use sphere because the creature was ethereal and invisible at that moment.
Another neat tactic of course is to put a Wall of Force 15 ft away from a Fireball firing Mage... nasty surprise.
The description of the spell seems to indicate that a perfect sphere shape must be used ? Its hard to get someone under a 5ft high half dome. Must the Wall be straight as well ? How malleable can it be ?
green slime
First Post
How malleable?
Well, I for one, wouldn't allow the use of small "gaps" at the bottom of the hemisphere.
And it is possible to dig one's way through the floor...
Then there is the possibility of going Ethereal and passing through the floor. Gaze attacks are not stopped, so do Eyes of Charming work?
By itself, the Wall of Force is not lethal. It is only so because of its tactical uses to divide the opposed forces, and the trick of entrapping someone in an Acid Fog or similar.
Well, I for one, wouldn't allow the use of small "gaps" at the bottom of the hemisphere.
And it is possible to dig one's way through the floor...
Then there is the possibility of going Ethereal and passing through the floor. Gaze attacks are not stopped, so do Eyes of Charming work?
By itself, the Wall of Force is not lethal. It is only so because of its tactical uses to divide the opposed forces, and the trick of entrapping someone in an Acid Fog or similar.
Rashak Mani
First Post
I wouldnt allow small gaps as well... but a hasted mage can cast Firewall and then surround with a Wall of Force and cook those guys up anyway... or the Acid Fog nasty thing.
Overall a good spell... especially for my sorceror... 4 times a day ! (Of course I will empower some stuff and use 5th lvl slots).
Etheareal creatures do have a tendency to be floating or flying... so using the sphere is easy against them.... and necessary too.
Overall a good spell... especially for my sorceror... 4 times a day ! (Of course I will empower some stuff and use 5th lvl slots).
Etheareal creatures do have a tendency to be floating or flying... so using the sphere is easy against them.... and necessary too.
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