Wall of Stone: Encasing an Enemy

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

When using the Druid level 12 utility power, Wall of Stone, can you encase an enemy in it, that is, can you use some of the squares of the wall to effectively put a lid on the top of it? According to the authors at the optimization boards you can, but it just seems a bit counterintuitive to me, so I thought I'd get some opinions.

Here's the lid proponent's diagram.

Thanks to black-mage for the excellent observation that you can encase a medium sized enemy using only 10 squares. That makes this a great choice even outdoors.

"How to trap an enemy"
Diagram below: 0 is enemy, X is wall, - is blank space.

At floor height:
XXX
X0X
XXX

One square above floor height:

---
-X-
-X-

 

[Riastlin]

I would have to check the exact wording of it, but if I recall correctly, there's nothing to prevent that. It could be argued that its a bit cheesy as it essentially breaks the encounter into two parts, but as a DM, I think it actually makes for a smart/creative use of the power.

 

[twilsemail]

[...]The wall can be up to 6 squares high and must be on a solid surface.[...]

The lid would not be on a solid surface, so I would say no. Just my $.02, however. In the end, I'd say ask your DM.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Hmm. That's right. It does say it has to be on a solid surface, so it would seem that it is a "no go," by the RAW? I do think putting a lid on it is kind of cheesy, maybe if the power was called, "Blocks of Stone," or "Box of Stone" ha, then it would seem to be alright. And if the ceiling acts as the lid, then that's perfectly fine.
Those crazy optimizers! (just kidding)

Here's their diagram though,
Thanks to black-mage for the excellent observation that you can encase a medium sized enemy using only 10 squares. That makes this a great choice even outdoors.

"How to trap an enemy"
Diagram below: 0 is enemy, X is wall, - is blank space.

At floor height:
XXX
X0X
XXX

One square above floor height:

---
-X-
-X-

 

[Riastlin]

Doh! Forgot about the solid surface part. So yeah, I don't think you can legally cover a creature, but nothing stops you from completely surrounding it with a tall wall, which unless the creature can fly or has a climb speed will still render it useless for a little bit (at least a full round if it makes two succesfull athletics checks to climb.

 

[MrMyth]

I don't believe that parts of the wall can be horizontal - so no lids. However, if you were already in a chamber with a low enough ceiling, you could surround someone entirely. (Or, with many walls, don't need to - some are 20' high, which many enemies won't be able to easily climb out of.)

Of course, many walls can be broken or eventually go away - but yeah, a very solid tactic for removing an enemy from combat for at least a few rounds, letting you deal with everyone else first.

 

[BobTheNob]

I would have to check the exact wording of it, but if I recall correctly, there's nothing to prevent that. It could be argued that its a bit cheesy as it essentially breaks the encounter into two parts, but as a DM, I think it actually makes for a smart/creative use of the power.

The problem with "Clever Ideas" is that they become precedent. What you have here is a rule quirk that can neutralize and medium or smaller opponent with no opposed role till end of encounter (is that the duration, Im not sure).

So, our level 12 druid is up against a level 35 humanoid God!!!! I do that Wall of stone thing = end of fight. If you tell me the game designers ever intended that, well, some men should turn up at your house with white jackets.

As a DM i reserve the right to what I call a "Non-precedent decision" which means that I announce to players that the decision I make now is in no way reflective of my decisions in future scenarios. I like to pay clever thinking, but I hate when one rule quirk or idea eliminates future challenge or breaks the game in some way.

My take on this would be, pay it first time as a non precedent decision, and make clear to the players that this will not be paid in future situations (even if that means I had to house rule it).

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Well, a square of the wall has 100 hp, so I think the 35 level god, could get through it pretty quick, but I get what you're saying. The thing is though, the power is kind of meh, especially, if outdoors, or if the ceiling is too high to trap someone in it. I mean, it's just a wall of stone. It's rated low on the optimization boards, without the "lid effect."

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Teleporting Through Peepholes and the Slain

I'm sure there are no definitive answers to these questions, thus, i'm primarily looking for consensus.
In order to teleport from point A to point B, you must have LOS to B. So, is it the case, that all you need to do is see it, even if you can only see it through a tiny opening? (I take it Eladrin don't have windows in their homes?)
Also, say someone with teleportation is trapped in a wall that has 100 hp per square, and that someone does x amount of damage to it. When would the appropriate time be in which there would be an opening so that he or she would have LOS in order to teleport?
Also, can one use the body of a slain creature to use the Assassin Shadow Step power?

 

[Riastlin]

Yeah keeping in mind that they can't put a lid on it so to speak, I don't think its too troubling. Sure, in the right situations, it will prove extremely useful, even broken. However, I also think that if the player started to abuse it, its a relatively simple matter to take care of. More outdoor fights, more fights in rooms with 50' ceilings and creatures with climb or fly speeds, etc. In those situations the wall becomes a hindrance but nothing more. Naturally, you don't do that for every fight, after all you should let the power shine from time to time.

Its also a daily power which limits its use to an extent and nothing in the power gives the wall resistance, so even in the 30 foot tall room, mid paragon monsters on up (its a level 16 power) will bust out fairly quickly. Personally, I think its a decent controllery power for a controller. It lets him do what he's supposed to do.