Wall of Thorns vs. a red dragon: did we do this right?

[Pielorinho]

Hi, folks! Last gaming session, we swaggered into an area of the dungeon we hadn't been to before. Our coats were brushed, our faces washed, our shoes were clean and neat -- you know the drill. Full spell complement, full of vim and vigor, ready to kick butt.

And that's when the huge red dragon reared its ugly head, and we realized that we were no way no how ready to fight a huge red dragon.

In order to give us time to get our butts out of there, I cast Wall of Thorns, shaping a wall that blocked the entrance to the dragon's lair and then formed a big snarl of thorns around the dragon's bulk. It probably wouldn't harm the dragon, given its huge scales, and it wouldn't stop the dragon's breath, but it would slow it down.

And slow it down it did. With no save or SR, the dragon was forced to make DC 20 strength checks to move. Even with a strength of 27*, that's a difficult check to make, especially if you want to move any real distance. And a huge red dragon can't burn through the thorns unless it takes ten minutes to do so.

We ran our butts away, until we got to a place where the cleric could erect a wall of stone, blocking us off.

My question is this: did we miss anything? The DM felt that this tactic was a bit on the overpowered side, seeing as how it provided such strong protection from the uberist of the uber creatures in the game. On the other hand, it's one of the first times we've seen fifth-level spells in action, so maybe we don't know how to judge them accurately.

Is wall of thorns really as good a spell for entrapping somebody, or could the red dragon have taken some course that would have freed itself more quickly? Have other folks found it to be so overpowered a spell?

Daniel

* I don't know what the dragon's strength was, and I'm not going to look up the stats of a huge red dragon because that would be lame-o on my party (we still have to fight this SOB); however, the smallest huge black dragon has a strength of 27, so I'm using that as a ballpark strength for a huge red dragon. Please don't correct me if I have the wrong number here.

 

[Malicene]

Don't have the books by now but :
* is there anything with size in the spell : a huge dragon shouldn't be stopped (perhaps)

and in fact :

* why does these wonderful flying lizards are always meet in small caves ?? in a plain or forest, NIGHTMARE overhead !!!

 

[Pielorinho]

Don't have the books by now but :
* is there anything with size in the spell : a huge dragon shouldn't be stopped (perhaps)

and in fact :

* why does these wonderful flying lizards are always meet in small caves ?? in a plain or forest, NIGHTMARE overhead !!!

I don't think there's anything in the books limiting the size of a critter captured by Wall of Thorns: if you can fit the critter in the spell's AoE, it should work.

And I won't describe why we confronted it in its lair, but it was a combination of great planning and bad luck on our part: the dragon was as surprised to see us (who weren't, after all, minions of his as he thought we would be) as we were to see him. We've fought dragons outside before, and they're all kinds of crazy bad.

Daniel

 

[Corwyn]

I just read through the spell in the PHB and your interpretation seems correct.

You could just cast in front of you to block of the entrance and the dragon would have to wait or roll very well to get through the wall.

No other real options for passing through the wall.. one could go around, under or over it.
And there is magic of course (DD for example).

 

[Sejs]

What's DD, Corwyn?




But yeah - that seems to be a fully above-board use for Wall of Thorns.

It's basically Super Entangle.

Good spell.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

It is overpowered to slow a creature down with a 5th level spell designed exactly for that purpose? Pshah!

You just need more experience with 5th level spells. A Wall of Force will usually be even more effective.

I would also like to point out that the same tactic would work with a lowly Web spell or two against any creature lacking easy access to fire. The game is not just about blowing things up; there are lots of opportunities for making defensive plays.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The simplest counter to Wall of Thorns is probably Dispel Magic. He should have been able to dispel the wall in a round, then proceeded to hand you guys a 2-litre bottle of whoop-***.

 

[Murrdox]

In that case I guess it depends on whether you're dealing with a Dragon old enough to cast Dispel Magic

 

[Sejs]

The simplest counter to Wall of Thorns is probably Dispel Magic. He should have been able to dispel the wall in a round,

Let's see here *breaks out the MM* Huge Red is Young Adult, Adult, or Mature Adult..CL 5, 7, and 9 respectivly. So yeah, he'd have access to Dispel Magic .. and should take it he knows what's good for him.. but to cast WoT that druid has to be 9th level minimum, himself.. so there's at least an even chance of the dragon trying to dispel and failing.

then proceeded to hand you guys a 2-litre bottle of whoop-***.

Can you recycle a 2-litre bottle of whoop-***, once it's empty?

^_^

 

[Pielorinho]

Actually, guys, since I still have to fight this dragon, I'd appreciate not discussing what abilities it would have (e.g., 3rd-level spells). I realized I asked if there were things the dragon could have done to get free, so I'm not blaming folks for giving out such info -- but for the rest of the thread, if folks wouldn't mind keeping solutions to the wall-of-thorns spell general rather than specific, I'd appreciate it.

That said, dispel magic is a very useful response to the spell that I hadn't thought of; it would certainly get you clear of the spell if you succeeded in your caster level check.

Thanks!
Daniel