Wall of Thorns

[Rozman]

The party I've been running has discovered the Wall of Thorns spell (they're all 11th level). It is is 5th level spell, but it puts an end to many encounters.

As far as I can tell, this is a great catch-all spell that frequently has no counter.

There are ceratinaly many situations where it will not work (vs. incorporeal, vs. anything that can teleport, etc.) but it:

a) Locks anything with a Str below 20 in place. If they're stronger, then they may be able to move a bit if you roll high.

b) Shreds anything you trap in it. As written, a hydra in a wall of thorns will chop its own heads off in about 2 rounds.

c) Allows further nastiness in combination. This I'm not very frustrated with; it was pretty crafty:

Faced with a trio of fiendish green hags, the party drops a Wall of Thorns on them to immobilize them, Silence over their heads, and the Fireballs them once. I think they dropped a Cloudkill in place just to make sure, but the raging inferno of thorns would have finished them off eventually, even through the fire resist 10.

Has anyone else had any problems with this spell seeming to be more useful than even a 5th level spell should be? I know I can always throw a bunch of critters at them that the spell doesn't bother, but that seems a rather lame response.

 

[Telperion]

Has anyone else had any problems with this spell seeming to be more useful than even a 5th level spell should be? I know I can always throw a bunch of critters at them that the spell doesn't bother, but that seems a rather lame response.

One thing I do know is that my players won't go near a Wall of Thorns. Whenever a mid-level druid shows up they tend to blast him to bits before he gets to do any nasty spell casting. I think they have some serious issues to deal with, or it could just be the way I portay the druids: Titan worshipping, lying, filthy, evil...

 

[Pielorinho]

My DM hated the spell when I was playing a druid, and I tended not to use it because i knew what a foul temper it would throw him into . Some notes and nerfs:

1) The spell says that if you move, you take damage. We interpreted that to mean moving from place to place, moving in a rules-sense of the word: you can still move enough to cast spells, drink potions, swing a sword, etc.
2) Although the spell doesn't mention it, it makes sense for the wall to provide cover. We ruled that it provided as much cover as a Web. This makes trapping people and then shooting them to death not so effective.
3) The spell doesn't allow SR; we ruled that it therefore allows Damage Reduction, but is treated as a magical weapon for purposes of DR.
4) Given how incredibly long it takes to burn, we ruled that it's only ignited by continuous magical fire, not by instantaneous effects such as fireball or flame strike.
5) Finally, and I'm not sure if this was ever implemented but I think it's the most important change, the wall NEEDS to have hit points. As it's written, a determined toddler halfling with a dull spoon can destroy a section of wall just as quickly as a great wyrm red dragon. I'd suggest giving each 5' section a hardness of 5 and 500 hit points, and ruling that attacking it with natural weapons inflicts damage as if the attacker were caught in it, and saying that only slashing weapons were effective against the wall.

Daniel

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The Wall of Thorns is a death sentence for some dumb grunts and beasts. OTOH, so is the Wall of Force.

Besides the all obvious travel spells, the WoT can be partially or fully bypassed by Levitate, Fly, Rope Trick, Gaseous Form, Meld into Stone, Blink, and Dispel Magic.

I agree that WoT really needs to have hit points. I would give the wall DR of 10/slashing and hardness as well.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

And then you cast entangle on it!!!!!!

the best thing about the wall of thorns is that a druid can move though it without penalty... WEEEEE!!!!!!!

Kahuna Burger

 

[shilsen]

the best thing about the wall of thorns is that a druid can move though it without penalty... WEEEEE!!!!!!!

Considering that the woodland stride description says that "thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect" a druid, I would say that it doesn't help with a Wall of Thorns.

 

[Malin Genie]

I have to agree that WoT can be vastly overpowered if you don't have it provide cover. Throwing Fireball shouldn't work (but the Cloudkill should, and that was good thinking on the part of your players....)

I probably wouldn't bother giving it hit points, breaking through it is represented by the Strength checks for ease of play.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Considering that the woodland stride description says that "thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect" a druid, I would say that it doesn't help with a Wall of Thorns.

well, if it didn't specificly say it in the spell description, you'd have a point there... "Creatures with the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered can pass through a wall of thorns at normal speed without taking damage." The ability for the druid to wander happily through is part of the spell design. Its very nasty under the right circumstances.

Kahuna Burger

 

[shilsen]

well, if it didn't specificly say it in the spell description, you'd have a point there... "Creatures with the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered can pass through a wall of thorns at normal speed without taking damage." The ability for the druid to wander happily through is part of the spell design. Its very nasty under the right circumstances.

Kahuna Burger

Whoops! I stand corrected.

(Goes off chuckling to put together a 9th level Druid NPC)

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Whoops! I stand corrected.

(Goes off chuckling to put together a 9th level Druid NPC)

Don't forget Insect Plague! (Whahahahaha!!!!!)

Kahuna burger