Wand of Accuracy question

[Milambus]

How about instead, make it the wizard equivalent of the fighter bonus, which imo would make sense...

Wand of Accuracy: Spells you cast through your wand are more likely to hit their target. You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with powers including the implement keyword while channeling your spell through the wand. Once per encounter, as a free action, you may alter the result of a die roll by an amount equal to your dex bonus. This alteration can be made after the result of the die roll is known, but before damage is assigned.

how is that?

+1 to hit is much more powerful than +1 AC, especially for a class that often targets many creatures when it attacks.

I think that simply allowing the wand to effect every target of a power would make it more in line with the other choices.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Doesn't the wand's usefulness depend on the build? A +1 or +2 attack bonus once per encounter does seem weak compared to the other builds.

But if I'm building a wand wizard, I'm not going to focus on wisdom at all, and avoid powers that use wisdom (which is very easy). For an Eladrin, I might lay out my stats to be Str 10, Con 12, Dex 18, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8. I'll likely grab stealth as a bonus skill to get combat advantage when I can. In this case, as long as I can find cover, my Force Orb or Acid Arrow attacks will essentially have +6 attack bonus with wand and combat advantage. As important as it is to hit with those powers, +4 from wand accuracy is nothing to sneeze at. Since this build is trying to be pseudo striker, Ranger or Rogue multiclass for extra damage and an extra dexterity skill (acrobatics or thievery) will be quite handy. And Improved Initiative will give frequent opportunities for the alpha strike.

The main problem with that build is how defenses work. You have a +1 Fort, +4 Ref (Int and Dex don't stack, it's whichever is higher) and a +1 Will. Additionally, your armor bonus won't stack, and so the only thing that you really benefit from with the Dex is ranged attacks (but why would you use bows?) and initiative. So you're trading a lot of defense ability for a once per encounter +4 bonus.

The Staff Wizard, alternatively, can pump his Con up to 18 and get a +4 bonus to AC on one attack. He can then use that bonus after damage is rolled which is huge. He additionally gets a permanent +1 to AC as long as he's wielding his staff. Also, since he has points in Con, that will work towards his Fort defense. So he would have a +4 Fort, +4 Ref, and +1 Will.

The Orb Wizard gets the obvious benefits of the Orb encounter powers, of which he has two to choose from. Additionally, the saving throw power keys off Wisdom, which is a good Wizard secondary stat. So if you had pumped Wis up to an 18 your defenses would be +1 Fort, +4 Ref and +4 Will.

This is why the Wand Wizard overall is the weaker choice. If he could use the power twice per encounter, or got a permanent +1 to hit, then it might be worth it. Even then though, I doubt it because he's losing a whole defense compared to the other implements. A +2 might be too powerful though, so it's hard to say how you could fix it.

 

[-Avalon-]

How about this for a method...

Instead of altering the wand implement paragraph as per PHB...

make a set of superior woods/materials for wands, for instance

level 1 - 10 Cherrywood : +1 Proficiency bonus
Maplewood : +2 Squares range on ranged powers
Oak : +2 Damage

Level 11 - 20 Ivory : +2 Proficiency Bonus
Ebony : +4 Squares Range on ranged powers
Stonewood : +4 Damage


Level 21 - 30 Devil Horn : +3 Proficiency Bonus
Dragon Tooth : +6 squares range on ranged powers
Demon Claw : +6 Damage

Just an idea, and it could easily be done with the other implements as well... but in fantasy a Wizard's Wand has pretty much always been the primo item for them, a la Harry Potter stories. So figured maybe give the wand'ers something special they can do with it (especially since I have yet to see any wands that were really cool anyways, making wand even less appealing imo)

 

[Mengu]

This is why the Wand Wizard overall is the weaker choice. If he could use the power twice per encounter, or got a permanent +1 to hit, then it might be worth it. Even then though, I doubt it because he's losing a whole defense compared to the other implements. A +2 might be too powerful though, so it's hard to say how you could fix it.

I'm not sure I understand... Why is it bad to suffer on a few defenses if it gives you some bonuses elsewhere? Isn't this the whole balance between defenders and strikers? The wand build is primarily for better offense not better defense. Staff and Orb wizards obviously do better in that department. But the Wand Wizard can do more reliable focused damage (due mainly to power choices that go better with wand accuracy). In our party, the staff wizard hardly ever benefits from his staff bonuses. He is usually well protected by the rest of the party (we have a party of 6). There have been combats where he wasn't even attacked. I'm sure he would have survived just the same, if he played a wand wizard.

In the game I'm running, there is a staff mage also, but he uses thunderwave a lot so he is threatened a bit more, and the staff certainly comes in handy for defense in his case.

There are a lot of factors that influence the strength/weakness of an option from the build choices, to party dynamics. I'm not saying Wand Wizards are the bomb (they are not), but under some circumstances, they are viable.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

I'm not sure I understand... Why is it bad to suffer on a few defenses if it gives you some bonuses elsewhere? Isn't this the whole balance between defenders and strikers? The wand build is primarily for better offense not better defense. Staff and Orb wizards obviously do better in that department. But the Wand Wizard can do more reliable focused damage (due mainly to power choices that go better with wand accuracy).

The problem is that you're sacrificing defense all the time for offense only once per encounter. Yes, Staff Wizards that hang in the back probably won't uses their AC bonus too much, but an Orb Wizard can get his Orb powers in every encounter while not sacrificing an entire defense class. All the Wand Wizard is doing is gimping his defenses for a one time bonus to a single roll.

Now, if there were a secondary benefit to balance this out, or if it was some other ability score being used, then it might be worth it. But since it's using a score in the same defense class it really weakens it's viability.

 

[Tony Vargas]

A DEX-dependent class feature of an INT-primary class simply suffers from redundancy, since INT & DEX improve the same defenses. If you invest substantially in DEX, your FORT and/or WILL will suffer, with no compensating improvement in AC/REF.

It still might be a worthwhile feature, if, for instance, you take a +INT&DEX race (like eladrin) and make only a modest investment in DEX, but it won't be as good as one that benefits from a secondary outside the primary's stat pair (Like both the Staff & Orb do).

 

[chitzk0i]

Why is it bad to suffer on a few defenses if it gives you some bonuses elsewhere?

You're not getting some bonuses elsewhere. The wand power is basically equivalent to the powers for the other two paths, but those paths result in higher defenses.

 

[Caliban]

The Staff Wizard, alternatively, can pump his Con up to 18 and get a +4 bonus to AC on one attack. He can then use that bonus after damage is rolled which is huge.

The staff bonus to defense for one attack doesn't have to be AC...

 

[Doctor Proctor]

The staff bonus to defense for one attack doesn't have to be AC...

Huh, I was not aware of that... I'll have to make sure our Wizard is aware of this, since there's a lot of times where an enemy Wizard or Sharpshooter might try to take the Wizard out at range with an attack targeting a non-AC defense. So now Staff has an even bigger leg up on the Wand.

 

[Mengu]

A DEX-dependent class feature of an INT-primary class simply suffers from redundancy, since INT & DEX improve the same defenses. If you invest substantially in DEX, your FORT and/or WILL will suffer, with no compensating improvement in AC/REF.

Getting a bit off topic here, but doesn't a Cleric or Paladin who focuses on high Wisdom and Charisma, or a Fighter or Barbarian who focuses on high Strength and Constitution suffer from the same redundancy?

There are a number of builds that focus on a pair of stats that overlap a defense. There will be more as we get more options. I really don't see this as a problem, depending on the role. A Defender who gets slapped around every time his reflex or will is attacked, is not a good design for instance. But with a wizard, I guess I don't see a low defense as a big deal if you have other tools of avoidance (such as teleportation, shield, expeditious retreat) at your disposal.

Having said that, the benefit from an orb is as good as if not better than the wand, so there is some merit in wanting to increase the potency of the wand.