Wands Using Caster's Caster Level

[airwalkrr]

I want wands to use the caster level of the caster, not the wand. I want wands to be a little cooler and not treated so haphazardly at high level, particularly the notion of the "happy stick" (wand of cure light wounds, a cheap, easily renewable healing source). I also don't think a 10th level party should think a wand of magic missile (CL 1) is utterly useless. Wands are just too limited when they have a set caster level IMO. No arguments about how this is a good thing, please. I simply don't want that kind of environment in my campaign.

Staves already do this to an extent (I want to standardize their costs a bit too, but I'd rather do it with wands first and base staves on them). Any ideas on costing wand creation? My initial thoughts would be 2,500 gp for a 1st level wand, 5,000 gp for a 2nd level wand, 7,500 gp for a 3rd level wand, and 10,000 gp for a 4th level wand.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I want wands to use the caster level of the caster, not the wand. I want wands to be a little cooler and not treated so haphazardly at high level, particularly the notion of the "happy stick" (wand of cure light wounds, a cheap, easily renewable healing source). I also don't think a 10th level party should think a wand of magic missile (CL 1) is utterly useless. Wands are just too limited when they have a set caster level IMO. No arguments about how this is a good thing, please. I simply don't want that kind of environment in my campaign.

Staves already do this to an extent (I want to standardize their costs a bit too, but I'd rather do it with wands first and base staves on them). Any ideas on costing wand creation? My initial thoughts would be 2,500 gp for a 1st level wand, 5,000 gp for a 2nd level wand, 7,500 gp for a 3rd level wand, and 10,000 gp for a 4th level wand.

You could just do away with Craft Wand and Craft Staff, and instead just have Craft Charged Thingy. Required Caster Level 5th, with creation and item use rules exactly like staves. What are you trying to accomplish by increasing creation cost? If I knew, I could give some suggestions.

 

[airwalkrr]

I want wands to be seen more as high-powered items, like they were in AD&D. A wizard with a wand of fire or ice was to be feared. Not so much as a wizard with a staff of power, but the distinction remains. A wand of a 1st level spell is no longer anything to write home about, even at low levels (particularly since you know you will level up before its charges are used). I want wands, regardless of spell level, to be seen as useful tools for characters of all levels, tools that don't necessarily outgrow their usefulness quickly or tools that are seen as cheap healing.

 

[Stalker0]

Change wand crafting to staff crafting. Done and done.

 

[airwalkrr]

Craft Wand is kind of redundant when a staff can do the same thing I guess. A staff can be made with only one spell right? Just like a wand... but better.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Here is an option:

Masterful Wand Wielder [Reserve]
You are capable of casting spells from wands using your caster level, not the wands'.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 3rd level spells, Greater Spell Focus: Transmutatuion
Benefit: As long as you are capable of casting a spell that is found in a wand you wish to use, you can cast that spell as if its caster level is equal to your current caster level.

 

[Narsil]

I wouldn't use caster level, but actually Magic Ratings instead. However, I use a higher powered variant which makes column two have an identical progression to Rogue BAB and column three have a Wizard BAB progression.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Make Wands and Staves the same for creation cost...but: Wands can only hold one spell and are non-rechargable. Staves can hold multiple spells and can be recharged.

If you use the alt Wands of Diminishing Returns rules {whose thread I lost, so below is the synopsis} then Wands have a very different flavour
[sblock]Instead of having a flat 50 charges, wands are charged by Die..

When you use a wand, roll the die type. On a roll of ‘one’ the die type decrements down the following scale:
20-12-8-6-4

Expended wands cannot be recharged, but they can be re-enchanted

Cost in the Market:

All five charges still in: 100%
d20 gone: 60%
d12 gone: 36%
d8 gone: 20%
d6 gone: 8%
d4 gone: 8%
Expended:

Re-enchanting a wand cost the % of the step you are going to, so d8 wand re-enchanting one step costs 36% of the normal cost.
[/sblock]

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I want wands to be seen more as high-powered items, like they were in AD&D. A wizard with a wand of fire or ice was to be feared. Not so much as a wizard with a staff of power, but the distinction remains. A wand of a 1st level spell is no longer anything to write home about, even at low levels (particularly since you know you will level up before its charges are used). I want wands, regardless of spell level, to be seen as useful tools for characters of all levels, tools that don't necessarily outgrow their usefulness quickly or tools that are seen as cheap healing.

In that case you could just use the wand/staff creation costs as per DMG, but multiply by 2. That would make a wand with 1 1st level spell cost 750 gp to create and 1,500 gp to buy.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

How about if the user sacrifiices a spell slot of the same level as the wand's spell (maybe possible with a UMD check, too? or is that broken?) level and gets to use his caster level and abilitiy mod to affect parameters and save dc? That way, the wand would be useful if the higher-level character can't cast the particular spell (sorcerers could use the help...) or if the wizard neglects to prepare it, he can use the wand as contingency. "Oops! Didn't think I'd need Resist Energy today! I'll just use the wand and burn some spells (along with the wands charges, as normal) to give the max resistance (30)" Perhaps not what you were looking for, but I think it'd make wands a lot more useful at high levels. And really, they can only hold up to 4th level spells, so they'll never be outstandingly good at level 20.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

How about if the user sacrifiices a spell slot of the same level as the wand's spell (maybe possible with a UMD check, too? or is that broken?) level and gets to use his caster level and abilitiy mod to affect parameters and save dc? That way, the wand would be useful if the higher-level character can't cast the particular spell (sorcerers could use the help...) or if the wizard neglects to prepare it, he can use the wand as contingency. "Oops! Didn't think I'd need Resist Energy today! I'll just use the wand and burn some spells (along with the wands charges, as normal) to give the max resistance (30)" Perhaps not what you were looking for, but I think it'd make wands a lot more useful at high levels. And really, they can only hold up to 4th level spells, so they'll never be outstandingly good at level 20.

I thought about something like that for a caster variant swordsage. Having a wand attuned to a particular spell, and then dumping a spell of equal or higher level through it spits out the attuned spell. On paper, it looks balanced for the per-encounter resource management found in Tome of Battle. Maybe give wands less charges, like 10, and no charges are spent if they burn their own spell slot. There is still the emergency usage, but the caster has to think, 'is it worth it to dump my scorching ray to make the rogue invisible?' Limited on-the-fly casting helps someone not feel completely useless as well.

 

[airwalkrr]

Giving up a spell slot is an interesting way of managing that. I'll have to think about it. Has anyone actually tried it in their campaign?

 

[Claudius Gaius]

Thre's a much-extended section on spell storing devices in Eclipse, along with a selection of options for using your own abilities to augment devices. The Practical Enchanter has a fair amount of that sort of thing too.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Giving up a spell slot is an interesting way of managing that. I'll have to think about it. Has anyone actually tried it in their campaign?

I would, but I'm running Iron Heroes.
There was a ring somewhere that imbued the wearer with the knowledge of one spell, like it was on their list, so sorcerers could use one spell beyond their spells known. Dunno where it's from though.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I want wands to use the caster level of the caster, not the wand. I want wands to be a little cooler and not treated so haphazardly at high level, particularly the notion of the "happy stick" (wand of cure light wounds, a cheap, easily renewable healing source). I also don't think a 10th level party should think a wand of magic missile (CL 1) is utterly useless. Wands are just too limited when they have a set caster level IMO. No arguments about how this is a good thing, please. I simply don't want that kind of environment in my campaign.

Staves already do this to an extent (I want to standardize their costs a bit too, but I'd rather do it with wands first and base staves on them). Any ideas on costing wand creation? My initial thoughts would be 2,500 gp for a 1st level wand, 5,000 gp for a 2nd level wand, 7,500 gp for a 3rd level wand, and 10,000 gp for a 4th level wand.

Well, D&D price balancing always assume quadratic increases in price (spell level x caster level might be slightly hidden, but it is in effect). I think staffs are bypassing this rule a bit, since the caster level is actually variable.

By RAW it appears as if Staffs have to hold more than one spell, which makes them more expensive then one might to want.

Wands as "spell prepared"-giver make a lot of sense to me, but note that adjucating a "fair" value is difficult. For spontaneous casters like Bards and Sorcerors these are equivalent to a feat (Extra Spell Slot). Since wands are effectively slotless items, this can be a problem if you allow unlimited uses. Maybe they should be charged, similar to Rods of Metamagic (n uses per day).

 

[Cbas_10]

For using a wand at the user's caster level instead of the wand creator's, I think I would come up with a feat for the wand user. I don't have my books at hand, but I'd call for Craft Wand as a prerequisite for this feat. When using the wand (as it originally appears in the DMG), compare the difference between the wand's CL and the weilder's CL. The difference in level would be the number of additional charges used. Thus, a 9th level wizard using a 1st level wand of Magic Missile would burn 8 extra charges to throw 5 missiles at once.

This would allow you to use your caster level idea without any sort of major overhaul, and automatically has a built in set of balances that allows the players the choice when they need it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think there even is already a feat that does this, probably in Complete Arcana? I found it a bit too costly, at least.