WANTED Melee class that can stand up APPLY WITHIN

[Lord Pendragon]

Who cares if your character survives, if the group gets the tar beat out of them because they don't have a tank?
Why is it considered 'good' that a wizard/sorcerer/archer type doesn't die?

I would care. A lot. I invest a lot in my PCs. Constantly creating new PCs only to see them hit the meatgrinder and die would destroy the fun for me. I'd much rather the entire party be beat to within an inch of our lives, than me die so everyone else can walk away without a scratch. *shrug* If that's selfish of me, so be it. I wouldn't expect any other player to continually sacrifice their PCs for mine, either.

Still, I find it amazing that this group is surviving at all. Without some kind of melee protection, spellcasters are tender and easily crunched. A party of nothing but spellcasters is at a serious disadvantage. In such a party, everyone is in danger of a quick death. One Iron Golem, for instance, and the whole party is meat.

I think that perhaps the group needs to come to a concensus. Have one or two guys play tanks, but the entire party commit to keeping those tanks alive. This may mean the spellcasters dedicating a certain portion of their spell slots toward buffing those tanks, but in the long-run, it'll be worth it.

 

[Darklone]

Some ideas...

Monk1(or 2)/paladin. Rocking saves, depends on magic buffs for AC. Might go duelist later for higher AC and has evasion.

Paladin pure: High AC, high hitpoints, high saves. Survives everything.

Dwarven cleric or fighter/cleric.

Gnome paladin. High hitpoints, good saves, small...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Go for an AC monster. I think the bladesinger (Web Enhancement Tome & Blood by WotC) with shield spells might be a very good one to use. Always go full expertise as well, which is a requirement for the prestige class anyway.

Use Figther 4 Wizard 2 to enter. Get high Int and Dex, Con next, Strength as fourth priority and then finally Charisma (I know, I know...). INT bonus will count to AC as soon as you enter the class, but only in light armour. Get Elven Chain or Mithril Shirt (depending on DEX modifier). Get items and spells to boost INT, DEX and CON instead of strength. Get Tumble as a skill.

He won't do a lot of damage, but he'll annoy the hell out of the DM.

I played a Bladesinger (up to level 30) and he did do quite a bit of damage (especially later on, he did do much more damage than the party evoker). Of course, I concentrated on STR there, cause it was the old Bladesinger from the T&B Web Enhancement, not the new Races of Faerûn type, which may use a rapier and gets the benefits of his special abilities when using any arcana spell (not just bladesinger spells).

But you're right: Bladesingers can get quite a nice AC, with Shield, Mage Armor, and Haste on their list. Add to that Fire Shield, Stone Skin, Improved Invisibility, Blur, Displacement, and Mirror Image and he can further avoid being hit.

I am in a small group of 6 people.We have been playing DnD for a combined 70 years or there abouts, and only in the 3rd edition have we decided to keep away from Melee types as we tend to die very fast. The ones that dont get into hand to hand(wizards sorcerer) tend to live alot longer.

Well, they don't decide to get into melee, but often enough they are drawn into hand to hand combat, and then they die much faster than your party tank. Plus there's archers and spellslingers in the enemy ranks, too, and they often target spellcasters, too.

Seems your DM does something wrong if your artillery characters don't get hit at all and melee types die all the time.

 

[Thresher]

Ive noticed much the same thing you have with melee, to be honest, its all about hitpoint attrition and saving throws vs insta-death.

Armour, who cares it dosnt scale vs BAB

Strength, is nice but a few items or a friendly buff here and there will up it.

Constitution: This is where its at!
Hitpoints! Need Hitpoints! Hitpoints are good!

Dex, wouldnt bother above about 14 for an Main-Melee tanky

Int, if you've got the spare stats a few extra skills dont hurt.

Wis, good for upping the Willpower saves.

Charisma. Often known as the "Dump Stat" it can be bloody awesome if youre a...

Paladin
Lay on hands, +'s to saves for the charisma stat and some Smiting! mmmm smiting! Can never have enough smiting...

Suggest,
Dirty hardcore dwarf with lots of points in Con
Few levels of Paladin
Few levels of Dwarven Defender
Equiped with heavy armour, Large shield and something painful to bean people with and stand near the cleric

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. Dwarven pal2/cleric?

 

[Endur]

ideal Dwarven Defender

The ideal Dwarven Defender would probably be:
Paladin 4/Fighter2/Templar 4/Dwarven Defender 10

Gaining levels
Paladin: 1-4
Fighter: 5-6
Templar: 7
Dwarven Defender: 8-17
Templar:18-20

(Defenders of the Faith didn't come out soon enough for Endur to follow this progression)

This gives you:
Paladin for Divine Grace, Smite Evil, and Turning (for Divine Might)
Templar for Mettle, another Smite, Weapon Specialization + feat
(minor spellcasting from each class)

Fighter = two more feats
DD = DR, defensive stance, uncanny dodge, etc.

 

[Darklone]

Nice combo, Endur. Though perhaps Divine Shield is more advised for a defensive paladin than Divine Might... ?

(Take both!)

 

[Yeoman]

What about a gnome or halfling paladin/monk/lightbearer or paladin/fighter/lightbearer, both would be survivable against most things, the first would be good without armor, and the second would make a nice dependable fighter.

 

[Endur]

Well, divine shield is interesting, but given Endur's relatively low charisma for a Dwarven Paladin, Divine Shield didn't make as much sense. Magic vestment or a magic shield would provide a comparable bonus. I didn't see anything that would easily replace Divine Might.

Also, a character should never focus entirely on AC. In order to be an effective front line character, the character needs both offense and defense. You need to do enough damage to not only bother the incoming monster, but also intimidate them if possible. An effective offense comes in handy when the monster does something against you that provokes an AOO, i.e. spellcasting in combat, grapple, etc. If you get swallowed whole by a monster, that effective offense may be enough to let you carve your way out of the monster.

Nice combo, Endur. Though perhaps Divine Shield is more advised for a defensive paladin than Divine Might... ?

(Take both!)

 

[Eccles]

My best tank so far was a barbarian/cleric...

He never managed to afford full plate, as the DM kept us completely impoverished, so I never got to play with a good AC. 'Coz he wielded a greatsword.

He had good HP, and could self-heal. Raging meant that nobody stayed in his area, and the luck domain meant he could survive the occasional obscene spell. Instakill spells all use Fort or Will saves, which he was good at. And he had about 100+HP at 7th level, so he could afford to fail reflex saves!

As soon as everything evil in the vicinity fell down, he patched himself up with magic.