WANTED Melee Types that stand up longer Apply Within

[Anditch]

I have been playing DnD with a group of 5 others for a combined total of around 70 years of play and have only now under the 3rd edition rules noticed how hard it is to be a melee type. Our group are steering away from them vowing not to play melee types. We are choosing casters and archers to try and live longer. Has anyone got any ideas on a character that is hard to kill. That is a great all rounder. good defence and attack. i dont mind what race or what class a hybrid type is good too (Hybrid is a melee who dabbles like a ranger or Pally) Also any ideas on magical items might help too .
THANKS ALL for any iteas

 

[Caliban]

Here's my PC, who has achieved a reputation for being able to stand toe to toe with just about anything for at least 10 rounds:

28 point buy, HP = Max at 1st level, 1/2 max +1 + (con bonus) after that.
Dwarf
11th level: ftr8/wiz1/def1/dev1

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 20 (16 base, +2 from level increases, +2 from Toad)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

HP: 127

AC: 28 base (+1 Called Full Plate, +1 Dex, +2 Ring of Protection, +2 Lg. Steel Shield, +1 amulet of Nat. Armor, +1 Dwarven Defender bonus)

AC increases:

+1 Dodge (one opponent only)
+4 (Haste/Boots of Speed)
+7 (Shield spell - off of scroll)
+5 (Expertise)
_________________

45 AC by Round 2 of combat.

+4 AC when Moving (mobility Feat) or when in Dwarven Defender Defensive Stance.

49 AC when needed.

Plus another 4 AC when fighting giants brings me to 53 AC, or 55 AC if I'm fighting Defensively on top of everything else.

He doesn't do as much damage as other fighters of his level (1d8+6 with his battleaxe), but he can stand toe to toe with multiple larger foes for 10+ rounds, which gives everyone else time to get their act together.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

If you are a fighter, Iron Will is not really an option.

Most of the melees I have seen drop from spells, not so much from hit pont loss (level 1-3 excepted)

 

[MarauderX]

I gotta really disagree that the melee types fall quicker than all the others. It all has to do with who gets attacked and by what. It might be the style of play and how you deal with enemies and what the DM has critters focus on when they face the PCs.

IMO the casters are far inferior to any walking tank and can't think of a level below 10th that an arcane caster can compete with a fighter. Having a strong front line is necessary, but they should expect to go it alone or wade into battle without some serious support by those casters.

gotta go, rant more later...

 

[Videssian]

Anditch, what do you have to work with? In other words, are you starting out at 1st with the gp that a 1st level character has, or are you starting out at a higher level (and corresponding higher gp value of stuff). Also, are you using a specific point-buy (28? 32? something else?). This kind of information will help us figure out what works best..

Using the same ECL and 28 point buy as Caliban's example, a combination that I'd like to try sometime is this:

28 point buy, HP = Max at 1st level, 1/2 max +1 +(CON mod)
Deep Gnome
8th Level: ftr 6, ill 1, bgn 1

Str 12
Dex 24 (base 20 +1 (@lvl 4) +1 (@ lvl 8) +2 (gloves))
Con 16 (base 14 +2 (toad))
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 4

HP 68

AC 10 base
1 small size
1 deep gnome dodge vs all
6 celestial armor
5 mithril large shield +3
7 dex (includes gloves of dex +2)
2 ring of protection +2
2 amulet of natural armor +2
4 boots of speed (haste for up to 10 rounds)
--
38

This leaves 4980 gp for other stuff. At the price of lowering your AC by 1, you'd have 11980 gp, which would be enough for a +2 wpn plus almost 4000 gp extra.

The AC can be further modified circumstantially by:

1 dodge feat
4 mobility feat
7 improved expertise feat
--
50

In addition, if he is adjacent to one solid object like a wall, he gets a +2 dodge bonus. If he's adjacent to two such objects, it's a +4 dodge bonus. In addition, he could cast/read from scroll the shield spell. This all yields:

4 breachgnome dodge between 2 med+ size objects
7 shield spell
--
61 !

And if we assume that he has the weapon finesse feat and an appropriate weapon, then discounting any possible magic bonuses, he would have a Melee Attack or Ranged attacks of +15/+10, and saves of Fort +11, Ref +13, Will +6, all those possibly modified by additional feats.

I've got to try this combo sometime!

 

[ShadowX]

A very simple build is a fighter10\weaponmaster 10, using any weapon you like, though greatsword is recommended. Get feats that improve your criticals and your set.

 

[Caliban]

Anditch, what do you have to work with? In other words, are you starting out at 1st with the gp that a 1st level character has, or are you starting out at a higher level (and corresponding higher gp value of stuff). Also, are you using a specific point-buy (28? 32? something else?). This kind of information will help us figure out what works best..

Using the same ECL and 28 point buy as Caliban's example, a combination that I'd like to try sometime is this:

28 point buy, HP = Max at 1st level, 1/2 max +1 +(CON mod)
Deep Gnome
8th Level: ftr 6, ill 1, bgn 1

Err.. What the heck is a "breachgnome" and how did you afford all that equipment at only level 8?

 

[Endur]

Endur Stonehelm

My character can hold his own defensively against anybody (especially giants).

Endur Stonehelm
28 point buy, HP = Max at 1st level, 1/2 max +1 + (con bonus) after that.
Dwarf
10th level: Paladin 6/Fighter 1/Dwarven Defender 3
Str 14 +2 level increases = 16 + bulls strength
Dex 14 (+2 gloves) = 16
Con 16 (+2 bracers) = 18
Int 8
Wis 12
Chr 12 (+2 cloak) = 14
hp: 110 (130 in defensive stance)
Base AC: 28 including dodge
+1 mithril full plate, +1 large shield, +1 ring of protection
dodge feat (+1), dwarven defender bonus ac +1, dex 16 = +3

Situational
+4 vs. giants
+4 while in defensive stance
+4 while hasted (boots of speed)

In tough combats, a friendly spell caster will cast:
Magic Vestment +4 on armor and shield (net +6 to ac)
Barkskin +5 ac
to make the base ac 39 plus situational modifiers (up to a total of 53)

Endur also has the Close Quarters Fighting feat to keep the nasty improved grab monsters away.

Thanks to a magic battleaxe and a friendly bulls strength, Endur usally dishes out enough damage to seriously threaten monsters. Particularly when he reads a scroll of Holy Sword before the combat.


Tom

 

[Videssian]

Err.. What the heck is a "breachgnome" and how did you afford all that equipment at only level 8?

Caliban,
The breachgnome is a prestige class from Races of Faerun.

Remember that he's effectively level 11 (like your example).. 8 from levels, and 3 from his race (ECL+3). And using the table in the DMG, that means 66000 gp starting money..

 

[Citizen Mane]

Err.. What the heck is a "breachgnome"?

The breachgnome is a prestige class in Races of Faerûn.

Best,
tKL

Edit: Oops. Videssian got there first...

 

[Caliban]

Caliban,
The breachgnome is a prestige class from Races of Faerun.

Remember that he's effectively level 11 (like your example).. 8 from levels, and 3 from his race (ECL+3). And using the table in the DMG, that means 66000 gp starting money..

Bah. Supplements I don't own don't count.

 

[Endur]

Part of it depends on the group mix.

Suppose you have six players, and five are spell casters/archers.

That means only one character is "melee-oriented", which means that nearly all melee attackers will have the option to focus their attacks on the melee character, which means unless he is very tough defensively, he's going to have real problems.

Now imagine a party that has six melee characters (no spell casters or archers). For this party, all the PCs get involved in melee and the risk is seriously reduced.

3e promotes more specialization than prior versions of D&D, so it also increases the benefit of having your character specialize in defense.

Tom

I have been playing DnD with a group of 5 others for a combined total of around 70 years of play and have only now under the 3rd edition rules noticed how hard it is to be a melee type. Our group are steering away from them vowing not to play melee types. We are choosing casters and archers to try and live longer. Has anyone got any ideas on a character that is hard to kill. That is a great all rounder. good defence and attack. i dont mind what race or what class a hybrid type is good too (Hybrid is a melee who dabbles like a ranger or Pally) Also any ideas on magical items might help too .

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Another possibility:

Ftr 2/Wiz 6/Spellsword 2

Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14 (+2 lvl, +4 headband), wis 10, cha 10
Feats: Dodge, Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Expertise, Improved Trip (or Greater Combat Reflexes), Expert Tactician (Song and Silence) or Quickdraw, Scribe Scroll, Extend Spell (3e) or Craft Wondrous Item (3.5e)

Equipment: +4 mithral chain shirt, +3 large shield, +1 ring of protection, +3 cloak of resistance, +1 one handed weapon, +4 headband of intellect, eyes of the eagle, 3kgp in masterwork guisarme, etc.

Spells:
1: Shield (3e), Protection From Evil, Magic Missile
2: Bull's Strength (3e), Cat's Grace (3e), False Life, Mirror Image, Glitterdust
3: Haste (3e), Blink, Dispel Magic, Greater Magic Weapon, Fly
4: Polymorph Self, Improved Invisibility

Skills: Note that spot and listen are class skills for Spellswords so spend all your spellsword skill points in one or the other. You should end up with a +20 spot or listen when your familiar is next to you and the other score in the vicinity of +9.

Tactics:
Bull's strength, cat's grace, and possibly False Life on you. Greater Magic Weapon on your Guisarme and main weapon.
If you use it, Polymorph into a Troll or Annis hag (this is a short duration tactic with 3.5e polymorph)

The enhancement bonus from your spells will stack with the abilities gained from the polymorph.

3e AC:
+3-+4 dex
+1-+2 deflection
+0 to 8 natural
0 to -1 size
+1 dodge
+4 haste
+7 cover
+8 armor
+5 armor (shield)
Total: 23-48 (53 with expertise); typical beginning of combat AC 30-31

3.5e AC (Note no use of the shield, cat's grace, or haste spells)
+2 dex (might want to buy some +2 gloves and +2 headband and +2 bracers of health to suck up the extra damage)
+1 - +2 deflection
+0 - +8 natural
0 to -1 size
+2 dodge
+8 armor
+5 shield
Total: 28-36

3e tactics: Haste and Shield are good round 1 defensive spells
Blink and Imp Invis give an extra attack from Expert Tactician (although Imp Invis makes you useless as a shield for other characters unless you move out front and use Imp Trip on your AoOs to stop opponents who move to attack them)
Polymorph gives size and strength to make excellent use of improved trip (especially on AoOs)
Leave spell slots open and prepare extended buffs and GMWs at the end of the day if you still haven't used the slots. They'll last several hours into the next day.

3.5e tactics (?):
Polymorph Self will be the only way to squeeze a good AC out of the combo and you'll have to forgo the reach of your guisarm in favor of the shield's AC bonus
Blink and Mirror image will combine quite nicely to make you very difficult to hit for several rounds.
Improved Invisibility will work wonderfully well for your defense but makes you useless as a shield for other characters unless you have polymorph running and can use imp trip to stop your enemies movement on your AoOs.
Leaving Spell slots open is much less rewarding than it was in 3e.

 

[tarchon]

In our group, the Monk is the perennially alive character. Being able to run away with a 60 move is really cool, plus the phenomenal saves.

 

[Naar]

A Psychic Warrior with high Str who has manifested one of the biofeedback chain of powers takes some damage from each injury as subdual damage. If you have a wrathful healing weapon (from Enemies & Allies), you heal half the damage you deal out on a hit. Whenever you heal normal damage, you heal an equal amount of subdual damage. When I tried this out, using a Half-Ogre, it worked very well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

2Naar:
Your healing both subdual and "lethal" damage with the sword ability? I believe the normal rule for this applies only to the cure spells, and if it is not a cure spell, it won`t do what you described. Otherwise, the tactic is good.

 

[Naar]

From the SRD:

When a spell or a magical power cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of subdual damage, if any.

The weapon quality is described as positive energy flowing into you, even to the point of damaging an undead wielder, which is the same as a cure x spell.

I can't take credit for this tactic, though. Whoever came up with it, I salute you.

 

[hong]

The knight IMC has an AC of 31 at 8th level. Not much can touch him, unless you start tossing fireballs around.

Dex 13
Full plate +2
Large shield +2
Amulet of natural armour +1 nat. armour
Ring of protection +1 deflection
Improved Dodge (homebrew feat) +2 dodge
Indomitable (homebrew feat) +1 luck

In one session a dragon did a full attack on him, and MISSED with everything.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

So the overall lesson here seems to be:

Do anything and everything to jack up that AC.

 

[hong]

So the overall lesson here seems to be:

Do anything and everything to jack up that AC.

Yup. While it's true that attack bonuses usually outpace AC, there's no reason you can't be the exception to the rule. Also, while high AC may not always stop the first attack, it can still be useful for stopping _iterative_ attacks.