D&D 5E Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop.

[Tony Vargas]

I haven't seen any. The claim he made basically boils down to:

TSR's glut of unprofitable splat was definitely *not* a result of bad management.

Not even close to how I read it. For one thing, I'm pretty sure he - and the facts in evidence (that have been bandied about for something like 20 years, now, virtually from the moment TSR went under, there were folks look'n to assign blame) - don't show that said 'splat' was unprofitable (maybe the facts don't 'prove' it was wildly profitable, either). For another, 'bad management' definitely seemed to be getting the blame for the failure of TSR, though mainly through the mechanism of returned novels, failed collectible games and financial disasters not attributed to any product line - again, both in the court of public opinion, and in what facts insiders have passed on.

 

[Corwin]

Not even close to how I read it.

Then I encourage you to go back, like I did, and refresh your memory. Please pay attention to who said what. I just quoted *my* contribution in that moment. I made no further allusions to anything larger or deeper. In fact, I phrased it as a question. With, "But what if..." at the beginning. So I wasn't even making a statement of fact. It was a just a thought provoker. "What if bad management was the reason we had a ton of unprofitable splat?" But that couldn't stand. No. It doesn't mesh with some people's preferred narrative. Even though he acknowledged that TSR was suffering from bad management. Still like to see proof, one way or the other.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Then I encourage you to go back, like I did, and refresh your memory. Please pay attention to who said what. I just quoted *my* contribution in that moment.

Corpsetaker made a claim about why TSR failed - 'bad management' rather than an 11 year run of a prolific TTRPG product.

Yeah, you speculated about whether producing a lot of product was also a 'bad management' thing, but his reply to that digression went right back to the original point, that the well-known failure of collectible games and novels was the proximate cause of the failure.

"What if bad management was the reason we had a ton of unprofitable splat?" But that couldn't stand. No. It doesn't mesh with some people's preferred narrative. Even though he acknowledged that TSR was suffering from bad management. Still like to see proof, one way or the other.

TSR suffered from bad management, resulting in it's downfall, sure. During the same period it also published one of the longer-running, more successful editions of D&D. There's no evidence that side of the business was unprofitable by TTRPG standards (which are necessarily pretty low, though I'm sure it couldn't have been as profitable as 1e at the height of the fad), so I'm not sure why you're implicitly assuming that while also demanding proof...


I understand getting frustrated with Corpsetaker, but you've definitely lost me at this point.

 

[Corpsetaker]

I understand getting frustrated with Corpsetaker, but you've definitely lost me at this point.

He's frustrated because the gig is up and he's been proven wrong. He just doesn't want to accept that his theory of "a fast release schedule" wasn't accurate.

No matter what you say or what you show him, it's not going to be enough.

There is no need to get frustrated when you are proven wrong. Just accept it and move on.

 

[Tony Vargas]

A number of go-rounds on this thread remind me of the old saw "choose your battles."

I should keep that in mind more.

 

[Corwin]

He's frustrated because the gig is up and he's been proven wrong. He just doesn't want to accept that his theory of "a fast release schedule" wasn't accurate.

I strongly encourage you to refrain from making claims about the emotional state of others.

And I'm waiting for you to show how the glut of unprofitable splat was *not* a result of bad management. Which, you know, is what you are railing against.

 

[Shasarak]

Do you have any figures showing TSR dice were relatively large compared to the RPG line? That seems wild to me. I'd love to see some numbers on that.

There are no numbers just pictures on Dragon Dice.

 

[Shasarak]

When was that? You mean after the announcement of a new edition and very shortly before a two year hiatus? When the hobby shrank to just a bit more than one third its former size?

That's the time you mean?

No, I mean the other time.

How many times do they have to do it?

 

[Shasarak]

WotC was purchased by Hasbro because Magic the Gather was making hundreds of millions of dollars per year.
D&D in no way, shape, or form factored into that decision.
And the sale likely only had very minor impact on D&D.

You claim that but the release schedule of products clearly paints a different picture.

 

[Shasarak]

Yes. Because that never happened.

First, because the best-selling WotC product is Magic the Gathering, which at its worst sells an order of magnitude better than D&D at its best. Pathfinder's total lifetime sales are less than what MtG likely pulled in during this quarter.

Second, the best selling Pathfinder products barely outsold D&D's average product. Pathfinder tied with D&D when they released the excellent Advanced Player's Guide while D&D released Dark Sun. Once Essentials came out Pathfinder fell back to #2 again. After to that Pathfinder pulled ahead when it was the unpopular Heroes of Shadow versus the very popular Ultimate Magic. The worst Pathfinder products of the era were still crushed.

I guess, as Morrus likes to say, that is a wildly moving goal post there.

Would I really expect to go to play DnD with you and find out we are playing Magic?