D&D 5E Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop.

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Since you guys are trying to compare a brand to itself.... doesn't this kind of cancel out?

I mean, if we say that Pepsi is selling 3 times what it used to, we can't say that the difference is that we are talking about a brand name. They were a brand name back then too.

D&D isn't selling better because D&D is a brand name as compared to... D&D....

If you meant something else, I apologize, but it just makes no sense.

Yes, it makes no sense since the D&D brand itself didn't really change much
Didn't D&D have something like this before though? I thought AL was essentially like the "Living" worlds that had events in various stores.

Yes. 4e had Encounters, which was pretty much the same as AL

They are not in a 1-person race. They are the 600 lb gorilla in the room to be sure, but there are plenty of other systems that people buy and play and being the biggest doesn't protect you if you are releasing crap and your competitors are releasing gold.

Their only close competitor may be PAthfinder, but it isn't their only competitor in existence.

PF is most assuredly a competitor. IIRC, PF actually had MORE players than D&D 4e had at the time.
 

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It is worth noting, of course, that the "size of the market" figures that have been cited are also raw numbers, and so they also don't reflect inflation - if the RPG market was doing $30M in 1999 and is doing $30M in 2016, that's not actually all that healthy a sign.
There's no hard figures but 20+ million or so in the 00s (Dancey also had an opinion that D&D could be, potentially, I think it was, a 27 million product line, and that might get conflated with similar guestimates of the size of the market as a whole).

Inflation's been slow for decades, but it adds up. Today's industry clearly reflects a rebound from the lows of D&D's 2-year absence from the market.

There is no evidence that a slow release schedule is what brought the figure back up. What would that figure be like had the 4th edition CB never came out, or the rules themselves were different.
It could be more about timing - in 2013, D&D had missed the OSR bandwagon, failed to establish a $50-100million level of revenue with an on-line subscription model that faded into vaporware, and withdrawn from the market entirely, today it's possibly getting pulled along by the resurgence in boardbames' popularity.
It could be someones laundering money through game stores.
:shrug: It could be anything.
But it correlates to D&D being offered in a very traditional form.


Yes, it makes no sense since the D&D brand itself didn't really change much
Yes. 4e had Encounters, which was pretty much the same as AL
As someone who participated in both, they sure seem difference, but, yeah, from a distance, prettymuch the same. The details differed, sometimes the changes along the way would seem significant or upsetting or exciting, but, yeah, prettymuch the same. Organized play, either way. Perhaps the biggest difference was that Encounters was very much focused on brand-new players, while AL is focused more on long-time & returning players.

PF is most assuredly a competitor. IIRC, PF actually had MORE players than D&D 4e had at the time.
PF was making about the same money (in stores, according to IcV2 - ie, not counting on-line sales or DDI subs) on it's very rapid release schedule as D&D was on a rapidly declining one. It was presumably selling more individual products to a smaller, more loyal market.

5e is outselling PF by quite a bit, on even fewer products released per year, so clearly PF has fallen that much farther behind D&D in popularity. PF, as a faithful 3.x clone, is really like 16 years into an overall run, so it's amazing it's still got so much momentum.
Both games, in their own ways, are really impressive performers.
For RPGs.
 
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This is a good point, of course - if either or both of the estimates are wrong, my assessment of the health of the hobby would likewise need revised. :)
We've got informal industry-insider guestimates before 2013. So it's not like anything's too solid. It seems obvious that the industry has bounced back with the return of D&D to the market, though ( I mean, it went away in 2012, came back in 2014, and 2013 was the low point - how obvious do we need?) Anything much beyond that is necessarily speculation.

Potentially fun speculation. ;)
 


PF was making about the same money (in stores, according to IcV2 - ie, not counting on-line sales or DDI subs) on it's very rapid release schedule as D&D was on a rapidly declining one. It was presumably selling more individual products to a smaller, more loyal market.

5e is outselling PF by quite a bit, on even fewer products released per year, so clearly PF has fallen that much farther behind D&D in popularity. PF, as a faithful 3.x clone, is really like 16 years into an overall run, so it's amazing it's still got so much momentum.
Both games, in their own ways, are really impressive performers.
For RPGs.

While PF and D&D have the overall same goals, they also have very separate ones Paizo is about making products for it's game and making a profit. WoTc is about making a "specific" profit that has been set by the company and anything less is considered a failure, even though they may be making money. If PF wasn't selling then Pazio would have either dropped the line, or turned their attention elsewhere, or both.
 



While PF and D&D have the overall same goals, they also have very separate ones Paizo is about making products for it's game and making a profit. WoTc is about making a "specific" profit that has been set by the company and anything less is considered a failure, even though they may be making money.
Paizo is a small, autonomous company, serving a very small, very loyal, very particular market. WotC is a unit of a huge company (and D&D handled, in turn, but a small corner of WotC), serving a small (and 30 years or so back quite a bit larger), decidedly 'mercurial' (because I don't want to say unreasonable, disloyal or psychotic) market.

Yeah, they have different approaches and different goals. ;)

If PF wasn't selling then Pazio would have either dropped the line, or turned their attention elsewhere, or both.
I don't think anyone suggested PF wasn't selling, just that 5e is selling more, in spite of offering fewer titles/year. Clearly they're selling 5e to a larger pool of target customers ("anyone who ever loved D&D"), than PF (die-hard 3.5 fans).
 
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