War Mage plus Mage of the Arcane Order...
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szilard said:
Machiavelli said:
Or you can look here. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061010a&page=3
Sejs
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And you have to be not just Good, but Double Plus Good. Not for everyone.Andras said:
At level 10, as divine spells, meaning you need wis to cast them.
Plus you have to be a RAINBOW Servant.
I'd have a hard time feeling like a proper warmage stuff-exploding badass being a -rainbow- servant. Might as well conjure unicorns and fluffy bunnies while you're at it.
Pbartender said:
I don't think Mage of the Arcane Order works like this.
As far as I see, the Spellpool does not in any way change the spell list of the caster, just allows him to prepare a spell (from his own list) that he does not know and did not prepare. Since a warmage knows all spells on their spell list, it seems the spellpool does not benefit a warmage at all.
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gnfnrf
A spontaneous caster can not even access the Spell Pool. To cast a spell from the spell pool, requires an:
"open, unused spell slot of the appropriate level. Wizards preparing spells for day decide at the time wether to leave some spells open."
Spontaneous casters do not have open spell slots, spontaneous casters only have used and unused spell slots.
Here is the text from the SRD re: Wizardly spell prep:
When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells.
Here is the text from the SRD concerning Spontaneous Casters:
[I]Daily Readying of Spells: Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which he spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies his mind to cast his daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh himself, the character does not regain the spell slots he used up the day before.[/I]
No mention of Open spell slots
Leaving slots "Open" is the solely a power that Wizards have,(and other Preparers), Moreover, while Arcane Preparation could let a Warmage get into Mage of the Arcane Order, the feat description clearly states that spell slot so used can only be used to cast the prepared spell. Of course under Leaving Slots Open, above,( which a Warmage does not get access to anyway), it specifically states; [B]" She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one[/B] ".
"open, unused spell slot of the appropriate level. Wizards preparing spells for day decide at the time wether to leave some spells open."
Spontaneous casters do not have open spell slots, spontaneous casters only have used and unused spell slots.
Here is the text from the SRD re: Wizardly spell prep:
When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells.
Here is the text from the SRD concerning Spontaneous Casters:
[I]Daily Readying of Spells: Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which he spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies his mind to cast his daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh himself, the character does not regain the spell slots he used up the day before.[/I]
No mention of Open spell slots
Leaving slots "Open" is the solely a power that Wizards have,(and other Preparers), Moreover, while Arcane Preparation could let a Warmage get into Mage of the Arcane Order, the feat description clearly states that spell slot so used can only be used to cast the prepared spell. Of course under Leaving Slots Open, above,( which a Warmage does not get access to anyway), it specifically states; [B]" She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one[/B] ".
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Just a note, there was an alternate Warmage option out of Dragon Magazine or one of the books. Instead of taking Advanced learning you can take the alt: Eclectic Learning.
Eclectic Learning can be taken in place of Advanced learning at any level which a Warmage would normally gain it. The two different abilities are interchangable, a Warmage ma select Advanced learning at a specific level then select eclectic learning the next time the Warmage would gain the ability.
Eclectic learning basically allows a Warmage to select a new spell that does not have to be an evocation spell, but it must still be of the sorcerer/ wizard spell list. I think there is some caster level adjustment to those spells (ie. a 6th level Wizard spell would be cast as a 4th level Warmage spell)
Eclectic Learning can be taken in place of Advanced learning at any level which a Warmage would normally gain it. The two different abilities are interchangable, a Warmage ma select Advanced learning at a specific level then select eclectic learning the next time the Warmage would gain the ability.
Eclectic learning basically allows a Warmage to select a new spell that does not have to be an evocation spell, but it must still be of the sorcerer/ wizard spell list. I think there is some caster level adjustment to those spells (ie. a 6th level Wizard spell would be cast as a 4th level Warmage spell)
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
I not only think they can cast spells from the spellpool (as long as they get in using arcane preparation), but I think despite the seeming almost-consensus here the overwhelming number of users at the WOTC have the opposite answer.
Arcane preparation gets you in. As long as you actually use that feat, it functions well with this prestige class. The list of spells you can call this way is specific - the sorcerer/wizard list. They are not treated as normal spells. They cannot be learned, you pay a debt for the spell, and it must be cast within a specific relatively short period of time or else they go away. The spell "...appears in the caster's mind at the beginning of the next turn and can can be used immediately". "Can be used immediately" seems pretty clear to me. It's not a "Can be used, if the caster could otherwise cast the spell".
I do not see any reason why it would be restricted to spells on that list that are also on your normally accessible list of spells. The spell clearly does not have to be in a wizards spell book, for example. In fact, I think a wizard can even call spells otherwise on his banned list from specialization. I think that is part of the point - to give you access to the spells that other people can cast but that you cannot. It's not just sharing flexibility, but also sharing actually different sets of spells with each other.
The text of the prestige class does mention that some sorcerers, bards, and other spontaneous casters are members of the prestige class, though their numbers are so few as to be consider "almost none". It also mentions that spellcasters that do use spellbooks cannot use a particular ability (anticipating that some members do not use a spellbook).
Open spell slots and unused spell slots can exist simultaneously for both sorcerers and wizards. I believe RAW uses those terms interchangeably sometimes even, and no intent was present to make them prepared vs. spontaneous terms.
Bottom line, this doesn't overpower the warmage, looks to work by RAW from my reading, has been done by many others (usually with sorcerers) at the WOTC boards and I have never heard anyone say it broke the game or made someone overpowered. I'd say let him do it. It's not powergaming, but it could be interesting and fun.
Arcane preparation gets you in. As long as you actually use that feat, it functions well with this prestige class. The list of spells you can call this way is specific - the sorcerer/wizard list. They are not treated as normal spells. They cannot be learned, you pay a debt for the spell, and it must be cast within a specific relatively short period of time or else they go away. The spell "...appears in the caster's mind at the beginning of the next turn and can can be used immediately". "Can be used immediately" seems pretty clear to me. It's not a "Can be used, if the caster could otherwise cast the spell".
I do not see any reason why it would be restricted to spells on that list that are also on your normally accessible list of spells. The spell clearly does not have to be in a wizards spell book, for example. In fact, I think a wizard can even call spells otherwise on his banned list from specialization. I think that is part of the point - to give you access to the spells that other people can cast but that you cannot. It's not just sharing flexibility, but also sharing actually different sets of spells with each other.
The text of the prestige class does mention that some sorcerers, bards, and other spontaneous casters are members of the prestige class, though their numbers are so few as to be consider "almost none". It also mentions that spellcasters that do use spellbooks cannot use a particular ability (anticipating that some members do not use a spellbook).
Open spell slots and unused spell slots can exist simultaneously for both sorcerers and wizards. I believe RAW uses those terms interchangeably sometimes even, and no intent was present to make them prepared vs. spontaneous terms.
Bottom line, this doesn't overpower the warmage, looks to work by RAW from my reading, has been done by many others (usually with sorcerers) at the WOTC boards and I have never heard anyone say it broke the game or made someone overpowered. I'd say let him do it. It's not powergaming, but it could be interesting and fun.
Pbartender said:
It's interesting. The writeup of the class does state that Sorcerers and Bards do sometimes join.
But, it does not state that these classes can benefit from spells off their normal spell list. Since it does not state that it gives this abililty, it does not. This would seem to make this a fairly worthless PrC for a Warmage.
In order to join, any spontaneous caster would also have to take 3 feats: Arcane Preparation, Cooperative Metamagic, and another metamagic feat.
As to whether Edge or casting in armor is allowed, if a DM does modify the PrC to allow a Warmage to cast spells off of his spell list, I would think he would also allow the special abilities. For the Warmage, it is merely another arcane spell and he should cast them in his normal way, just like a Sorcerer would (e.g. full round for metamagic spell pool spell) or a Wizard (e.g. casting a spell with all of his normal advantages like caster level and disadvantages). But, the DM would have to modify the PrC to allow spells off of the Warmage's normal list.
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