D&D 5E (2024) War Priest bonus action without War Caster Feat

[Plaguescarred]

Or does the lack of the actual "free hand" term under Somatic component (like there is under the Material component) mean the cleric can always perform a Somatic component with the hand that's holding their shield or weapon?

Or I guess, if the spell has a Material component they can, but they forget how to do Somatic with an occupied hand if there isn't also a Material component, according to that Sage Advice. And War Caster is covering that particular case?

If you wield a weapon and a shield, you don't have a free hand to cast a spell with Somatic component and no Material one (S, V/S)

War Caster will let you cast such spells without having to unequip your weapon or use Thrown weapon.

But as a War Priest, you can just as well attack as a Bonus Action, unequip your weapon as a Free Item interaction and cast a spell with a Magic action for few times if you don't have War Caster.

 

[Zardnaar]

Let me guess in a one shot with a specific preknown level and with precasting before combat, only really small rooms and enemies clumped together and no enemy hitting them to break their concentration.


This class and Valor bard has the absolute same number of bonus attacks actually after level 5. They just cant use reactions in order to spam them faster. (And dont have the option to give up a bonus action to give the party 1+ bonus turns, or grant an ally movement).

Of course cleric can get more damage on attacks thanks to the level 7 and 14 features, thats why its better suited for attacking than a bard in general. (And having +2 armor also helps).

Medium size room, difficult terrain, pillars for cover. Next room had an alter, fire pit pillars.

Hard cast encounter 1, still going encounter 2.

Lvl 19 basic magic items (+1 shield, adamantine armor) 1 rare item.

War cleric bonus attack refreshes every short rest no waiting to level 5. Run out you have spiritual weapon concentration free.

Used true strike, shilleagh, warcaster, divine strike.

War clerics probably the best caster gish, paladin for warrior.

3 rooms on one of those WotC fold up boards. They were teleporting around with spirit guardians.

They can also give themselves a +2 concentration free weapon lvl 3 slot if DMs being a hard ass.

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So with the increased complexity of 5.5 with weapon masteries, emanations and more forced movements type meta (of 3.5 and 5.0) something had to be done.

Found a new venue. FLGS sells D&D stuff and war gaming stuff. Slanted towards older crowd as well. They don't sell card games focus on psints, warrants, models, collectibles. Ive found stuff there from the 1960s-80's and seen guys painting 2mm scale Napoleonc wargaming stuff. Full sets of painted Warhammer 40k minis, WW2 tank games, non D&D RPGs. Big...

• Zardnaar
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• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

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Encounter set up other day. Not this one specifically. Ogre are proxies for Eldritch Eddie's fall of Netheril.
Players didn't know what I put in the level 10 one.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

WotC should have added a rule to 5.5 that a hand holding a focus can always be used to perform somatic components, it would have eliminated so many uninteresting weapon juggling situations.

I wonder if such a rule was ever on the table during the 5.5 development process, or if nobody at WotC cares about this issue?

 

[plecostomus]

Yes, I would just do that. 5E (even 5.5) is just not too consistent with wording and has a lot of small things just not soo well thought through and the warcleric also gives this feeling (like the reaction mentioned at the end of the guided strike.)

Also warcleric is not thaat strong (at least level 5 where others have 2 attacks+) so this should be fine balance wise.

Yeah I think I'm going with this, thanks lol.

Also you and @Zardnaar will be delighted to know my party has both a War Cleric and a Dance Bard! It's a very powerful party, I'm sure.

If you wield a weapon and a shield, you don't have a free hand to cast a spell with Somatic component and no Material one (S, V/S)

War Caster will let you cast such spells without having to unequip your weapon or use Thrown weapon.

But as a War Priest, you can just as well attack as a Bonus Action, unequip your weapon as a Free Item interaction and cast a spell with a Magic action for few times if you don't have War Caster.

Thank you for explaining. I think I have some disagreement with the Sage Advice, but I'm just going to make it easy for myself and the player by adding the Somatic feature from War Caster to his class.

The game where I am a player has extremely loose adherence to spellcasting rules, and I was trying to use my game to learn the rules more and apply them more strictly, but I think there isn't a danger in letting my player have this one for free.

 

[Tessarael]

WotC should have added a rule to 5.5 that a hand holding a focus can always be used to perform somatic components, it would have eliminated so many uninteresting weapon juggling situations.

I wonder if such a rule was ever on the table during the 5.5 development process, or if nobody at WotC cares about this issue?

That would result in the War Caster feat being unneeded in most cases, but it is already seldom needed with draw/sheathe juggling. Something that should be cleaned up for 6th edition - just get rid of somatic only spells, making somatic something that is done with a focus or material component.

 

[Zardnaar]

That would result in the War Caster feat being unneeded in most cases, but it is already seldom needed with draw/sheathe juggling. Something that should be cleaned up for 6th edition - just get rid of somatic only spells, making somatic something that is done with a focus or material component.

Waving a wand around or weapin/shield focus should do it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah I think I'm going with this, thanks lol.

Also you and @Zardnaar will be delighted to know my party has both a War Cleric and a Dance Bard! It's a very powerful party, I'm sure.



Thank you for explaining. I think I have some disagreement with the Sage Advice, but I'm just going to make it easy for myself and the player by adding the Somatic feature from War Caster to his class.

The game where I am a player has extremely loose adherence to spellcasting rules, and I was trying to use my game to learn the rules more and apply them more strictly, but I think there isn't a danger in letting my player have this one for free.

I dont think dance bards vad as such *its still a bard). I think its a weak gish concept and its bard dice come with high opportunity cost (vs picking another Bard).

In pmaytrsting and observing my players im starting to value not getting hit more and control.

Random crits can really ruin a PCs day with the new critters dealing buckets of damage and higher HP has made blasting g for example a bit worse.

So im looking for this in classes. Combat pillar. Non combats most skill checks and related spells/abilities.

Ability to about damage

Good defenses at higher level (specifically wisdom saves, paladin aura etc)

Ability to negate/control opponents.

Dice/initiative manipulation.

You still need reasonable damage if couse (fighter with sword and board+spice counts).