War Trolls aren't Giants !?!?

[Xombie Master]

Last night my group I play with ran into War Trolls. Our ranger pulled an arrow of giant slaying, as normally trolls are giants. For some reason War Troll's are listed as monstrous humanoids. Anyone out there know if this is a mistake, or is there some reason that this is the case. Our ranger (with giants as favored enemy) just got screwed out of gold. He knew we were going to be fighting war trolls, so he purchased the arrows. The DM neglected to inform him that War Trolls aren't a part of his favored enemy group. Personally I think this is a crock of [THREE-WEEK-OLD BANANA PUDDING/MUSHED UP ROAST BEEF SANDWICHES LEFT IN THE SUN TOO LONG/TEXAS BARBECUE], and the DM is being a [LESS THAN FRIENDLY DM/CRAZY CHICKEN MAN/ROD STEWART]!

[Edited by Pielorinho. Reason: masked profanity is still profanity, and we like to keep the boards clean.]

 

[Shade]

It hasn't been erratad yet, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. The MMIII is chockful of errors, but I believe this one was a design decision. Personally, I agree with you that they should be of the giant type. I suspect the designer wanted them to have fighter BAB, not cleric like other giants.

 

[Pielorinho]

I somewhat agree, once the edits are done. The rationale behind the ranger's bonus is that he knows a great deal about his favored enemy. Surely he'd know that he doesn't know a great deal about war trolls, if they're not part of his favored enemy class.

Unless, that is, there was an in-game miscommunication. Perhaps the ranger has never heard of war trolls before, but assumed that they were like regular trolls (which he knows all about) and prepared accordingly? In such a case, he should know as soon as he sees them taht they're a different critter, moving differently and with different anatomy; he definitely shouldn't waste giant-killing arrows on them.

I think the DM has done you slightly wrong. At the same time, c'est la vie; Dms make mistakes sometimes, and unless this one is actively out to trick you, it'd be best to give the DM polite feedback, and move on.

Daniel

 

[DMH]

Nice editing.

Anyways, this has been rehashed on WoTC's monster board and the general consensus is that since they have been "genetically" modified, they have strayed from the blood of true trolls enough to be considered monsterous humanoids. I am guessing they wanted the better BABs and saves for a creature bred for combat.

 

[lukelightning]

A ranger should definitely know if their opponent is in their "favored enemy" category.

"Favored enemy: aberrations" covers everything from rust monsters to mind flayers to beholders to otyughs. Sure, a ranger might not know all the special abilities and characteristics of the specific monsters, but they would have some intuitive sense on how to hurt it more.

So a ranger with favored enemy (giants) sees a bunch of war trolls. He suspects that, much like regular trolls, they are giants and knows how to fight them. But then, with only a moment's observation, he sees they move and react unlike all the other giants he's fought before.... so he knows his giant-fighting techniques may not be so effective.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I have no idea why War Trolls are even a monster. Did class levels become passe and nobody told me?

 

[Xombie Master]

Sorry for the "masked profanity". I've got no problem with the genetically bred trolls are not the same as trolls bit. My big problem was that a player spent all his loot on these arrows. He should have been informed they would be useless. Thing is War Trolls are common in the world we are in, so he would have known better than to spend the money. This DM didn't "realize" they were monstrous humanoids until last night. The problem is that the DM doesn't read the books enough. He doesn't even own the core books. We're constantly having to tell him that we're not playing 2nd edition any more. Grrrrrr...he writes a good story but knows nothing about the game mechanics.

 

[Crothian]

I have no idea why War Trolls are even a monster. Did class levels become passe and nobody told me?

The idea is to sell more books, not use the rules as they exist. THat would make most of the mosters obsolete.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

The idea is to sell more books, not use the rules as they exist. THat would make most of the mosters obsolete.

Thing is, I get that. But why not dream up a few templates? Heck. Even a "war" template ("vetran" might be a better name). I'd dig that over a War Troll. Plus, now my little pea brain has to figure out how much equipment a War Troll/fighter 1 has. Ouchies.

Maybe there's stuff on the cutting room floor that would explain the inclusion. I dunno.

Don't get me wrong. I've paged through the MM3 at my FLGS. It's a good book. I'm an OGC junkie, so it goes down further on my list, but it's clearly a solid buy. I liked how they have more plants for those of us who don't always have games inside a dungeon. But there were some critters in there that really made me wonder what was going on when they were handing out assignments. Like the Web Golem. I dunno. Maybe it was 3am and they had eaten too many anchovie-and-pineapple pizzas, but who builds a golem out of webs?

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by BiggusGeekus
who builds a golem out of webs?

Drow? Spider people? Web people?


The first comment from one of my friends when he looked at that was 'The War Troll is basically a Troll with Fighter levels and equipment.' The Book of Templates by Silverthorn Games had, IIRC, a template for Warrior Angels or something like that. I would have no problems with a cool template like 'War veteran' or something [As was said above]. Heck, it could even say they gain a divine bonus on attack rolls or something, which seems a little cheesy, but I'd like that better a Troll turned into a Monstrous Humanoid simply for the BA and saves.

Now if they added a few twisted things to a Troll and made it an Aberration, that would be cool, but as long as it had some flavor and they didn't do it just to make an aberrant Troll.