War Trolls aren't Giants !?!?

[kigmatzomat]

Nah, they can still play Amber. Assuming, of course, that anyone still plays Amber.

 

[ForceUser]

I'd have to support this theory, given the amount of "D&D is so much work to run" posts. Half of them are complaining that numbers need to be added together in order to run the game. Lets face it folks, if you can't add numbers together, then maybe you're not cut out for DMing.

That's interesting. One of my FAVORITE parts of DMing 3E is crafting cool monsters, like 4-armed sahuagin mutant barbarian grapplers with the whirling frenzy rage variant. Man, that's a fun monster (PCs love being pinned underwater while subject to 8 attacks per round).

Mmm. Going to have to use that one again.

 

[Drowbane]

That's interesting. One of my FAVORITE parts of DMing 3E is crafting cool monsters, like 4-armed sahuagin mutant barbarian grapplers with the whirling frenzy rage variant. Man, that's a fun monster (PCs love being pinned underwater while subject to 8 attacks per round).

Mmm. Going to have to use that one again.

[hijack]
Ye'll burn in the Fiery Pit of Phlegethos for that one, ye git!

Hehe, was a sick fight... my poor Fi 2 / Rog 2 almost died twice... (and almost died once the fight before that!!) at least he leveled
[/hijack]

3e is all about OPTIONS. At first glance, the widest variety of these options appear to be aimed at the PCs. However, any DM worth his salt realizes that he has all these options and more to use for his encounters. Who honestly wants to fight "normal" straight out of the MM (I, II, or III) critters all the time? Throw a freak at us once in awhile... if you've been playing 3e for any amount of time you'll know that the PCs will often beg to play such freaks... (such as a Feral Stony Thri-Kreen that I terrorized Talath's RttToEE with )

When I'm ready to run the game again (recovering from DM-burnout) you can be sure that if I wish to use a "War Troll" that it will either be a modified version of the monstrousity from MM III or just a nasty Bbn/Fi Troll (with Whirling Frenzy )

Bleh!

 

[coyote6]

I have to agree w/Vraille's basic idea -- why not add a special ability to the war troll? Either leave it as a giant, with a "gets +1 base attack per HD rather than 3/4ths" special ability, or make it a monstrous humanoid and give it "SQ: Troll blooded -- War trolls count as trolls (and thus as giants) for all purposes". Yeah, that effectively gives them two types, but I don't think that's a horrible thing.

WRT class levels and monsters, there's been some debate on how likely it is that DMs use this tool. It's really not clear.

I do. Barbarian levels are especially fun.

My players know the joy of hearing, "The _X_ rages" (with _X_ having values of "hill giant", "ogre", "lizardfolk", "grimlock", etc.). Great fun!

Also fun: "The imp feints, and then sneak attacks you with his stinger."

I've thought about adding a level of barbarian to a dragon . . .

I think the issue is that class levels don't neatly create a 1:1 CR progression. A frost giant with a level of barbarian gets a lot for that +1 CR. A frost giant with a level of sorcerer? Not so much.

I agree, this is problematic. It is especially problematic for the poor humans, elves, orcs, and other humanoids, that have nowhere else to get their CR, except from class levels. At least frost giants have the "associated levels" concept to help.

 

[BWP]

Applying class levels and templates is something most people don't due. I have theory that the DMs of the world are declining in ability to do things. Monsters that are ready to go out of the block are just easier to do.

Why did you feel the need to insert that second sentence? "Most DMs don't bother applying class levels and templates, because monsters ready to go straight from the book are easier to use." It doesn't imply anything about the DM's abilities.

I'll often order fast food because I can't be bothered cooking. It doesn't mean that I don't know how to cook, and when I want to cook up something special, I will.

 

[tetsujin28]

I have no idea why War Trolls are even a monster. Did class levels become passe and nobody told me?

That's my feeling. I thought they were pretty cheesy.

 

[tetsujin28]

I think the issue is that class levels don't neatly create a 1:1 CR progression. A frost giant with a level of barbarian gets a lot for that +1 CR. A frost giant with a level of sorcerer? Not so much.

I dunno, man. We ran into an orc with a few levels of rogue and one of sorcerer, using that 1st level spell (Sniper's Shot) from Complete Adventurer that lets your next ranged attack be a sneak attack. It's a swift action, so there's not even an attack of opportunity for using it. Dang nasty.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Applying class levels and templates is something most people don't due. I have theory that the DMs of the world are declining in ability to do things. Monsters that are ready to go out of the block are just easier to do.

These are two of my favorite things to do... One of the major reasons that I like 3.X sso much more than the previous editions. I just added a template to my game that was inspired by a drink advertisement on TV... (The commercial is cute, the template is creepy...)

The Auld Grump

 

[Nightfall]

Auld,

You and me both. Which is probably why I completely enjoyed Book of Templates, can't wait to pick up the 3.5 version, and of course Advanced Monster's Beastiary was completely killer.

*hums "The Four Horsemen by Metallica* Yeah baby! You know I dug that completely!

 

[Crothian]

Why did you feel the need to insert that second sentence? "Most DMs don't bother applying class levels and templates, because monsters ready to go straight from the book are easier to use." It doesn't imply anything about the DM's abilities.

Sure it does. It implies that things that are complicated some DMs don't have the ability to do.