Warcraft Expansions

[FDP Mike]

Can anyone tell me where I could find that Warcraft D20 preview?

I'm not sure exactly which one you mean, but Blizzard did put up a preview, offering a few pages from the core book, including the stuff for the new Scout core class. Go here.

There was also an interview with E. Deirdre Brooks, the developer, recently posted on WolfSpoor. Go here.

WoolSpoor also has a handy page that's collected most of the information regarding the Warcraft RPG so far, including an interview that Deirdre, along with Andrew Bates, did with HomeLan. Check out the page here.

Originally Posted by Coik:
Does that mean it uses alignment and fire-and-forget magic?

If so, it won't be enough to keep me from buying it...but the spring in my step as I go to do so will be noticably smaller.

And if so, it's not really a big deal...axe alignment for faction allegance, axe wizards for sorcerers (and mebbie give them a slightly more generous spell progression). Done and done.

Yes to alignment and fire-and-forget magic.

That said, affiliation/allegiance is a central component of the Warcraft RPG, particularly regarding the make-up of PC parties. Alignment remains important, as the battle between Good vs. Evil is, of course, key to the RTS itself, but the relationships between the different affiliations (i.e., Alliance and Horde) should make for some great roleplaying.

Wizards still have a key role in the game, so don't go axing them too soon!


Take care,
Mike

 

[Coik]

Alignment remains important, as the battle between Good vs. Evil is, of course, key to the RTS itself, but the relationships between the different affiliations (i.e., Alliance and Horde) should make for some great roleplaying.

Wizards still have a key role in the game, so don't go axing them too soon!

Well, I guess you're right...I shouldn't go about changing the thing until after I've had a chance to read through it, should I?

Okay then. Just how pervasive is alignment? As bad as in D&D, in that there's some absolute but vaguely defined system of morality in place? Worse? Better?

And I was gonna say that wizards don't fit the system of magic in the game (yeah, yeah, I know, there's no way they'd be perfectly matched, but still), but I got to thinking that the difference between a wizard and a sorcerer is primarily one of training, neh? Something that wouldn't come up often in the context of the game. And there was the Kirin Tor...

But dern if being sensible doesn't take all the fun out of pre-judging something!

 

[ShadowX]

**************Spoilers***************
Well I personally hated the expansion campaign. Most of the game added so very little to the plot that it made it feel artificially elongated. The characters were also annoying. Maive was to similar to Arthas, Tyrande and Furion letting Illidan go was completely out of character, and Kael joining Illidan even though he serves the demons who destroyed his original source of magic was just dumb. Its even worse that Illidan does seemingly nothing to help the Blood Elves with their hunger for magic. And then Sylvannas just shows up as a Dark Ranger for no apparent reason when turning her undead was completely optional in the original, and even then she was only a banshee. And then when she gets free will you would think she would revoke her dark path, but no she proceeds to start her own empire. The only character I really like was Lady Vashj, even though the naga seemed rather bland on the whole.

As for the warcraft campaign setting, I have to agree that I fail to see how good it could be. Warcraft 1 and 2 added very little to the setting and barely had any plot of its own other than "kill orcs\humans." This leaves 1 game and now an xpack to create a setting. Admittedly the current composure of the world leads to an interesting setting, but the setting has always been rooted in war, this doesnt fit well with the small adventuring parties of an RPG. I really hope Warcraft is similar to Diablo in that it has a lot of history to it that just never made it to the games, as I can not see how the games themselves could create a compelling setting.

Oh and Orcs rule!! Best part of warcraft.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Glad to see theres some discussion about the pros and cons of the old Warcraft series.

It'll be very interesting to see how this all comes into play via the RPG.

 

[dreamthief]

I also hope it brings in some new PnP gamers into the fold. D&D was influential in Warcraft's design, and now it's Blizzard's time to expose them to RPGs. Not all of 'em, but some of them should be intrigued enough by it. I know I am.

 

[der_kluge]

I guess all I'm saying is that, in my opinion, Warcraft the RPG, doesn't really add anything more to the game that I can create with my PHB, DMG, and MM. The MM already has rules to play orcs as a PC race, as well as goblins. I already have all the spells in the PHB, and all the other D20 mechanics. So, it would seem to me that I already have everything I need to be able to go out and make my own Warcraft-like world, which from what I can tell, just isn't really much different from Greyhawk, or Forgotten Realms.

I mean, Planescape, or Al-Qadim, or even Oathbound - now that's unique and different, and those books put forth a lot of creative energy that can stir the imagination. Warcraft? I'm just not seeing it. Sorry.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Curtis, I can agree with the main point you're saying, that Warcraft doesn't have a lot of 'original' material to bring to the game. But that's really only a surface look because Warcraft orcs are different than D&D orcs. Warcraft Taurens are not D&D Minotaurs.

Can you emulate it?

Yes.

Is it the same thing?

No.

I think that the one preview with it's new core class, the Scout, also proves that this game will have a lot to offer to Dungeons & Dragons players, not only those who want to add Warcraft elements. The faces may be the same but the material underneath looks very different. It'd be like seeing two fish that look the same but not knowing that one of them is a deadly flesh eater.

And I hate to say it, but if this book has steampunk material, despite Fantasy Flight Games and Privateer Press having the ideas and ads for this type of source material long ago, White Wolf will beat them to the printing press. The reason I hate to say that is because I'm anxiously awaiting both books and would've liked to see what they had to offer.

 

[Nightfall]

Just want to say thanks to Mike for the stuff...and I certainly think I'll be looking VERY hard at getting the Dungeons and Dragons Warcraft Roleplaying Game. (There. I said it right. )

Btw Joe, I hope you pick up the books. Along with a few I did as well.

 

[JoeGKushner]

So Nightfall, what books exactly do you have material in?

Inquiring minds want to know.

And heck, I bet if you do get the Warcraft book, you'll probably do the same thing as me and just pop those classes,races, PrCs, Feats, Spells, Magic Items, feats and other goodies right into your standard campaign.

 

[MasterLich]

Personally i cant wait till this comes out. Been looking forward to it fer awhile now.

As fer campaign ideas: Well i believe that at the end of the Reign of Chaos, The night elves retreated back into the forest and the orcs and humans had a truce set up. You can easily mish mash a group together and watch the player conflicts run wild. You think an orc and a human can get along? I forsee a lot of fist fight's happening. A night elf attempting to retrain itself from beating on the High elf every time it cast a spell. Everyone not trusting that knome....er.... Goblin. Gonna be fun trying to deal with that as the DM Hell, you can even bring back Guldan and make the orcs all evil again. w00t!!

From a warcraft player that has played it from the begining and read the novels, is that the story line is pretty good, not great but good.

I am gonna have great fun, espicially when the see that Red Dragon settle down by them and chit chat with them politely and not eat them. Gonna scare the piss out of them.

 

[JoeGKushner]

How are those novels anyway? I looked at the one about Thrall for a bit, got up to the part where he was a slave, and it wasn't bad. Not great reading or anything, but certainly no worse than the Scarred Lands trilogy.

 

[MasterLich]

Yah i got all 3 of them:
Day of the Dragon
The thrall one (cant remember the name)
The last guardian

The reading is easy, not all that hard to read. They are ok. At the end of the Thrall one you get a good idea of what the Orcs truely are. Grom Hellscream is my favorite character in the entire game/novels/universe, too bad he is dead now, or is he....?? A guy who went into the depths of Hell, came back, went down again, and came back to kick ass one last time

he last guardian happens during warcraft 1 and Day of the Dragon happened just b4 the Tides of Darkness. Dragon gives a good idea on how paladins are in WC, egomaniacs, womenizing, do-gooder freaks. They kick ass. And tells you something of the Dragons in WC, Y they not all evil.

 

[Beastman]

I guess all I'm saying is that, in my opinion, Warcraft the RPG, doesn't really add anything more to the game that I can

Well, there is so many stuff out there in these days and I think half of that (minimum) you can create with the PHB, DMG and MM.

Call me a naysayer, but the Warcraft "world" has to be the most uninspired thing ever. I can do much, much more with, say, the FR campaign book. The depth and detail far surpasses anything in any of the Warcraft games.

Mmmh, it's exactly that deep of the FRCS, that is annoying to me. All is clustered with too much stuff, too much detail. I feel limited by that much stuff, giving me a feeling that all is set and done within the realms. But different people have different tastes...

In Warcraft, you have elves, orcs, humans, and undead. D&D has all that. In Warcraft, you have a handful of spells. D&D has hundreds of spells. In Warcraft, goblins are limited in scope. In D&D, goblins can be wizards, or clerics if you want them to be.

Mmh, I would not judge a setting because of the number of spells or feats or whatsoever. That's the judgement of a min-maxer and not someone interessted in roleplaying (no insult meant here!). A setting is more than that and I think there's no need to make a list, but one of the things included is originality and innovation: let's see if the WCRP shows this

Furthermore: show me a setting where there are no orcs, humans, undead or elves (perhaps they are there hidden by a "false name")


I have preodered the WCRPG book long ago, because I'm a D&D fan and I liked they Warcraft RTS games (including WCIII + expansion). I hold back my opinion about the WCRPG until I read through the book. I expect the WCRP to give me a good glimpse of the world and it's background, as well as living descriptions of the most important places. I also expect superb art.

And yes, I'm looking foreward to this book, because I expect it to use up as much of my precious time as the computer games, but with a few friends at the same table and not facing the cold glass of my monitor.

 

[MasterLich]

K, In the warcraft universe, upto this point, ONLY Humans/high elves ever become wizards, clerics or paladins (humans only fer this, correct me if i am wrong). That is a racial restriction. EX: If i were a wizard and part of the Dalaran, which was the only wizard guild/place to learn, and beause becoming a wizard is a trained skill, Y would i want a goblin or an orc or a dwarf (not that they would) or any of the other races in my guild? Y would i want another race to gain our secrets, espicially goblins.

Also Goblins are not very trust worthy. But all this is a moot point until we get the core rules. I believe someone said the a goblin could become anything, personnally i would DM this rule, but the DM can change any of the rules, cant he? Besides, Goblins make kick ass machinery, they are tinkerers, ala Knomes. But they still are not trusted.

PS: This post was not meant to insult any1. It is just fact upto this point.

Also: No goblins were hurt in the making of this post. I know i have been picking on them and they understand, we are still good friends, until i backstab them... eh.... did i say that out loud again??

 

[Dark Jezter]

Someone up above said that D&D already has stats for orcs, which is true. However, Warcraft orcs are a lot different than traditional D&D orcs.

Traditional D&D orcs are chaotic-evil brutes who live only to pillage and slaughter (and in turn be slaughtered by advanturers).

Warcraft orcs are an honorable, yet savage race with a spiritual culture based on the ancient practice of shamanism. I'd also say that Warcraft orcs have stats more in common with a bugbear than a D&D orc. Warcraft orcs are strong and tough, but not as mindless as their D&D counterparts.

In fact, the stats for the orc race is one of the things I'm most looking forward to about the Warcraft RPG.

 

[Nightfall]

So Nightfall, what books exactly do you have material in?

Inquiring minds want to know.

And heck, I bet if you do get the Warcraft book, you'll probably do the same thing as me and just pop those classes,races, PrCs, Feats, Spells, Magic Items, feats and other goodies right into your standard campaign.

More than likely. But as to what books I'm in. Check out the Player's Guide to Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers (a few spells is all)
and Player's Guide to Rangers and Rogues (I did more substanial work in that one. But I can't say much more other than I helped out alot in the appendix for the Pr-classes.)

 

[IanWatson]

Thanks for the plug, Mike.

 

[Dark Jezter]

BTW, looks like there is now a web page up for the Warcraft RPG at SSS's site. It can be found here.

In addition to the Warcraft RPG book, which will be featuring new races, new base classes, new prestige classes, etc. there will also be a series of Warcraft RPG suppliments. Such as...

Manual of Monsters: A monster manual for the Warcraft seetting.
Alliance & Horde Compendium: This looks to be a book that has new feats, spells, prestige classes, and even mass combat rules.
Shadows & Light: A suppliment about deities and religion in the Warcraft world.
Magic & Mayhem: A book full of new spells, feats, magic items, and technologies.
Lands of Azeroth: Details about all the lands in the world of Warcraft, as well as the history.

These all sound very cool to a Warcraft fan like myself, but I'm especially looking forward to the Manual of Monsters and the Alliance & Horde Compendium (for the mass combat rules).

 

[JoeGKushner]

The nice thing is that the Alliance and Horde Compendium looks like its going to update the thing to Frozen Throne timeline with blood elves and other goods. Naga maybe?

 

[DanMcS]

The translation of the RTS to a pen-and-paper game, I think, has been done beautifully, precisely because Deirdre Brooks (the developer) specifically attempted to make Warcraft a roleplaying game as opposed to a direct "simulation" of the computer game. And, no, they're not paying me to say that.

I'm glad to hear it, and I'm glad blizzard is allowing another shot, because there was a Starcraft RPG boxed set for Alternity, and from what I hear, it was uninspired. Pretty much a straight port of the computer game to the alternity mechanics, without really expanding any setting material or new things. Whether this was Blizzard exercising too strict of editorial control, or a failure by Wizards, is anyone's guess. I'm still trying to get my hands on one though.

Since they're back into the licensing biz, it's not far-fetched to think a Warcraft computer RPG could come out. Blizzand is kind-of doing one for Starcraft, but it's going to be PS2/xbox/console only, and it has been outsourced to another company.