Level Up (A5E) Warlock Archetype Curse scaling & Herald multiclassing

[Tessarael]

I'm reading the rules on p457 and it specifically refers to the PB*2 wording and short rest recovery. When you provide a mini exertion pool of PB does that automatically qualify for Exertion Recovery by RAW?

Yes, I assume so. There's no specific rules added for additional exertion points that Fighter or Psyknight get that specifies that they're only recovered on a long rest.

That does make sense regarding their exertion pool. Divorce it from the spell slots. It is still good, as they get a whole bunch of exertion points for their maneuvers.

 

[lichmaster]

Maybe I didn't understand the whole point of this thread, but I'm not sure herald's spell slots/exertion is unbalanced:

• Adepts are the class with the highest amount of exertion per rest at any level after 6 (and they are on par with all other "standard" martials before that)
• Fighters do get slightly less than an adept, but more than all other standard martials, and from level 3 they get to use some maneuvers for a reduced cost, further boosting their effective exertion per rest. As they increase in levels, they can use more maneuvers at a reduced cost, and at level 20 they get to choose maneuver up to degree 3 to use for no cost, which gives them virtually unlimited exertion.
• Rangers at level 9 get to use one maneuver for free out of a menu of 2. Very narrow, but also means virtually unlimited exertion expenditure.
• All others have a standard progression of 2x PB.

Now, heralds do get a ton of exertion if they convert all their spellslots into exertion. However I don't think this to be an issue, because spell slots are recovered on a long rest. If we consider a standard day with 3 encounters, and divide the exertion evenly across encounters, we find that at low levels the effective available exertion per encounter is lower than any other martial class. This then picks up and becomes higher than an adept's, but only at level 17. At that point they'd have so much exertion that it won't probably even be possible to spend it on an encounter. Also, the steep acceleration in gaining exertion comes at the cost of level 3, 4 and 5 slots. The question of rough power equivalence between maneuvers and spells becomes poignant here.

So the issue eventually is one of too steep scaling (too weak at low levels and too strong at high levels). Also while it's true that a 1 level fighter dip is very good fir a herald, it's probably even better for a wizard (they get significant HP boost, proficiency in all weapons and armors, exertion, combat traditions and maneuvers, a fighting stile and a soldiering knack).

So maybe a solution to reduce this steep scaling issue is to give heralds the normal exertion pool, and give them the ability to burn spell slots to get more exertion, but at a higher cost. But at that point I'm not even sure there would be any need.

 

[Anonymous3]

Actually now that I think about it, another fix (nerf) for herald/fighter multiclass would be that if they multiclass into something that gives them a standard pool, they can't sacrifice spells for exertion anymore- they just have the standard martial pb*2 pool

This was mentioned earlier in the discussion but as @W'rkncacnter points out, you're removing a core Herald mechanic if you do.

 

[Anonymous3]

Maybe I didn't understand the whole point of this thread, but I'm not sure herald's spell slots/exertion is unbalanced:

The thread started with trying to figure out if a Warlock dip was worth it for a Herald MC and it turned into suggesting that a fighter dip was the better choice which then morphed into a general Herald MC conversation and how unbalanced Heralds can be if they dip into a fighter... and how that can be resolved.

While I do agree that the fighter dip is strong (for a range of classes) it is hard for me not to think that access to two pool of exertion is not at least unbalanced. I agree with mostly everything you've said here and have made similar arguments in this thread.

This then picks up and becomes higher than an adept's, but only at level 17. At that point they'd have so much exertion that it won't probably even be possible to spend it on an encounter.

It is not hard to burn through exertion and Herald has the huge benefit of choosing when then want more juice. Examples:

• Herald7/Fighter3;
• 29 exertion;
• Two attacks;
• Brute Strength
• Activate Dispelling Assault (2), then add Brute Strength (2 x 4); Shrug it Off (2); Catch Your Breath (2) = 14
  • Do this twice: 2 x 14 = 28
  • Brute strength added damage (4 x 4d6) over two rounds.
• Let's say you don't get a short rest and a battle ensues 10 minutes later. No problem. Burn 10HD for 10d4 (25 exertion). So you can sort of pull off the combo again. With a short rest you're definitely pulling it off again.
• Another combo to burn exertion would to combine Heighted Reflexes (3) and Intuitive Counterattack (2 x 4) and another maneuver (2) that uses your action - 6 attacks costing 13 exertion per round.

This is why I think the limits should be placed on how the slots can be used and how long they last ie., the Herald can use spell slots for exertion but they are super temporary - you get to use it on your turn and any excess is lost (I posted a list earlier in the thread).