D&D (2024) Warlock brainstorm

[Clint_L]

Literally go back to 3.5 mechanics and add some of 4e's features.

Okay, but that's not going to happen for OneD&D. So we are limited to tweaks that can make the class a bit more interesting while keeping it backwards compatible.

Warlocks are already a solid class. They're just a bit one dimensional. But, as I posted earlier, maybe that is just the intent, so that they work as an entry-level spell caster.

 

[Pauln6]

Okay, but that's not going to happen for OneD&D. So we are limited to tweaks that can make the class a bit more interesting while keeping it backwards compatible.

Warlocks are already a solid class. They're just a bit one dimensional. But, as I posted earlier, maybe that is just the intent, so that they work as an entry-level spell caster.

I think it really is the intent to keep them as a very basic spell-caster but the Tome Warlock should be the more complex option with more magical choices in invocations if not the base class but it seems to miss the mark by a good distance.

 

[mellored]

Okay, but that's not going to happen for OneD&D. So we are limited to tweaks that can make the class a bit more interesting while keeping it backwards compatible.

Warlocks are already a solid class. They're just a bit one dimensional. But, as I posted earlier, maybe that is just the intent, so that they work as an entry-level spell caster.

The 3.5 version isn't all that different.

Make Eldritch blast a class feature.

Just make pact magic an invocation. (Know a spell, cast it 1/short rest).

Add a few more Eldritch blast modifications (melee, cone, line, burst, etc), and make them not stack (push 10' OR pull 10').

That's 3.5 warlock.
But it can also litterally play the 5e warlock just by picking up the same spells (via invocation) and spam the same Eldritch blast choices.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Eh, if we were going backwards, 4e's "how many ways can I make warlock's curse nastier" better fits the connotations of the class name and has more room to grow.

 

[mellored]

Eh, if we were going backwards, 4e's "how many ways can I make warlock's curse nastier" better fits the connotations of the class name and has more room to grow.

Which can also be invocations.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I’m surprised there isn’t actually a pact (tome/chain/blade/ect) that’s focused around the warlock’s invocations, getting extra ones and swapping them out more freely.

 

[mellored]

Eh, if we were going backwards, 4e's "how many ways can I make warlock's curse nastier" better fits the connotations of the class name and has more room to grow.

Actually, this might be a good pact thing.

All warlocks get an out of combat curse at level 1, based on their Pact.

At level 3, it becomes a combat curse.

I.e.
Curse of the fey: Target creature becomes lost more easily. They must make a check anytime they navigate to a place, even familiar ones. They take a penalty to this check equal to your proficiency bonus.
Improved curse of the fey: remove any resistance to charm effects.
Greater curse of the fey: creatures can not use any special senses to see though illusion, such as tremorsense or truesight.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think we have plenty of subclasses, but not very many Pacts. We have Pact of the Blade, Pact of the Chain, and Pact of the Tome in the Player's Handbook, and Tasha's Cauldron of Everything added the Pact of the Talisman. That's it.

We could have Pact of the Atheme. Pact of the Cauldron. Pact of the Wand. Pact of the Chalice, or Besom, or Bell. There is so much design space here that isn't getting used. If done right, they could enhance all warlock subclasses in different ways.

Here's what the Pact of the Cauldron could look like.
[Snip]

My thing about the pact boons is that while the Pact answers the question of who you sold your soul to the Pact Boon can answer the question of why you sold your soul.

• Tome: For magical (wizarding) power. You're now a caster with a spellbook
• Blade: For martial might. (I absolutely think that Hex for Warrior/Med Armour, Shields, and Cha to attacks needs adding to Pact of the Blade)
• Chain: For help. Or because your patron wants to give you a handler (who's chained is ambiguous)
• Talisman: For skill or protection or luck for yourself or, importantly, for another. Also the vanilla option.

So what's missing? A lot including that the Pact of the Talisman covers too much and does it weakly.

• Chalice (Healing): So many people would do almost anything to save either themselves or their loved ones from a fatal disease or from death. The Healing pact provides this ... to a degree (just as a tome warlock is no wizard a healing warlock is no cleric; you're a cheaty off-brand knockoff taking shortcuts).
• Talisman Breakout: The Pact of the Talisman covers too much and is spread too thin,
  • Golden Fiddle or other instrument (pseudo-bard): The gift (or "gift"; the devil beat Johnny with the sin of pride) of music and creativity; mostly expertise in musical instruments and with deception
  • Marked Deck or Loaded Dice: The down on their luck gambler who just needs that win and is willing to cheat for it.
  • Amulet: More protection-focused than the Talisman
  • Should there be a craftsman tool in here? Or too much variation?
• Girdle: An alternative to the Blade, the Girdle is a performance enhancing drugs analogue
• Purse: Gold. Effects include you don't have to pay to buy anything of your levelx5 GP plus a combat effect.

Hmm... as a side effect of this I think that "Why did you make the pact?" is meaningful enough that there isn't a gaping thematic chasm if you push the pact to level 3 to match other classes and allow the boon at level 1.

 

[CleverNickName]

I’m surprised there isn’t actually a pact (tome/chain/blade/ect) that’s focused around the warlock’s invocations, getting extra ones and swapping them out more freely.

We could make one!

PACT OF THE BELL
Your Patron gives you an Eldritch Bell, a magical musical instrument about 6 inches long and weighing about 1 pound. Your Eldritch Bell might be cast from silver and covered in beautiful filigree of the Archfey's court, or it might be a rusted, pitted iron bell covered in Fiendish runes. You may use your Bell as an arcane focus for your Warlock spells.

Invocation of the Bell: As long as you are holding your Eldritch Bell, you learn the toll the dead cantrip if you don't already know it, and you learn one additional Warlock Invocation of your choice. When you finish a Long Rest, you may choose to replace this extra Invocation with any other Invocation of your choice that you meet the requirements for.

If you lose your Eldritch Bell, you can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your Patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and it destroys the previous bell. The bell turns to ash when you die.

NEW INVOCATIONS

Bell of Souls
Prerequisite: Pact of the Bell
When you cast toll the dead, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals.

Amplified Tone
Prerequisite: Pact of the Bell
When you cast toll the dead, the range of the cantrip is increased to 120 feet.

Dread Tintinnabulation
Prerequisite: Pact of the Bell
When you cast toll the dead, targets that fail their Wisdom saving throw also gain the Frightened condition until the end of their next turn.

Rolling Doom
Prerequisite: Pact of the Bell
When you kill a creature with your toll the dead cantrip, you can use your Bonus Action to cast toll the dead again on another creature within range. If that creature also dies, you can use your Reaction to cast toll the dead a third time on another creature within range.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I know Toll the Dead is thematic - but it's also almost useless to your average warlock thanks to Eldritch Blast being multi-target. And in 5e an At Will Stun is a little much.