D&D (2024) Warlock Dips

[Mirrorrorrim]

Bladelock dips could still gain Extra Attack through their primary class, so the question is whether you're getting anything out of it that's worth delaying Extra Attack a level? Then there are rogues - I can't help wondering whether they made Pact of the Blade Cha/Wis to rule out Arcane Trickster builds.


What about a slightly deeper dip - are there any Invocations you'd dip for from another class?

I don't doubt that there is a concern about Intelligence Bladelocks, but it's not more than Charisma Bladelocks for Paladins and Bards.

For me, an invocation would need to be necessary for building a particular identity, not just a lark. The only ones I would consider that are dippable are Mask of Many Faces for a pseudo-changeling, or Devil's Sight for a darkcaster/advantage build, maybe a drow rogue?

 

[tetrasodium]

This is my one bummer of the system... the one class that has been the foundational "dip" class is the one with perhaps the greatest narrative background and the least suited story-wise for dipping. Rarely do people dip warlock because they want to play the story of coming upon some patron mid-campaign and incorporate that pact into their adventures... they do it purely for the game mechanics boost. And in that regard, I almost thus wish it was one of the more generic classes-- fighter, rogue-- that was that foundational dip that everyone wanted. There's much less story and background you have to ignore in the class if you multiclass fighter or rogue just for the mechanics.

But that ship sailed a long time ago and I've come to accept it.

Oh it's still very much dip-worthy, there may even ultimately be some great combos from doing so. Importantly though it's not dip-primary design. With the fiend patron we have now a two level dip grants

Spoiler: the following

• Two arcane list cantrips. Barring combo specific synergies & possible changes to cantrips I'd imagine these to often be something like guidance & resistance
  • Unexpectedly those are not on the current packet spell listings though so I wouldn't be surprised to see them get well deserved heavy reworking from the last version we had in the paladin & druid packet and-or moved to being class/archetype specific abilities. No matter what these are probably going to be the editions A & S tier arcane list cantrips, any cantrips that synergize (ie sun cleric+firebolt), or just another cantrip that might be useful ()ie message or whatever
• 1 caster level (ROUNDUP1/2+1/2) & access to first level arcane spells (ie shield!) or 3 prepared arcane spells & two first level slots depending on if the other side of the warlock dip is a caster or not.
• A pact boon: This will key off wis/cha/or int & carries extra benefits depending on choice. Since we are talking about dios & charop it's more useful to group those by attrib than their names,
  • Wis:
    
    Spoiler: Pact weapon

    Conjuration Cantrip (Warlock)
    Casting Time: Action
    Range: Self
    Component: S
    Duration: 24 hours
    Tracing arcane sigils in the air, you conjure a
    Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice
    in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond
    with a magic weapon you touch. The weapon you
    conjure or touch must lack the Heavy property,
    and the spell fails if you touch a magic item that
    is attuned to someone else.
    For the duration, the weapon grants you the
    following benefits:
    Eldritch Warrior. When you attack with the
    weapon, you can use your spellcasting ability
    modifier for the attack and damage rolls,
    instead of using Strength or Dexterity.
    Proficiency. You have proficiency with the
    weapon.
    Returning Weapon. If the weapon has the
    Thrown property, the weapon returns to your
    hand immediately after hitting or missing a
    target.
    The spell ends early if you cast the spell again
    or die. When it ends, a conjured weapon
    disappears, or your bond with a magic weapon
    stops.
    or
    Spoiler: Book of Shadows

    OF SHADOWS
    Conjuration Cantrip (Warlock)
    Casting Time: 1 hour
    Range: Self
    Component: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Stitching together strands of shadow, you
    conjure forth a book in your hand. The book
    contains eldritch magic that only you can access,
    granting you the following benefits:
    Cantrips and Rituals. When the book appears,
    choose two cantrips, and choose two 1st-level
    spells that have the Ritual tag. The spells can
    be from the Arcane, Divine, and Primal spell
    lists, and they must be spells you don’t already
    have prepared. While the book is on your
    person, you have the chosen spells prepared.
    Spellcasting Focus. You can use the book as a
    Spellcasting Focus.
    The book disappears if you cast this spell again
    or die.
    Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as
    a Warlock, this spell also enhances other
    cantrips while the book is on your person; you
    can add your Warlock spellcasting ability
    modifier to the damage rolls of any cantrip you
    cast that doesn’t already have that modifier
    added to its damage roll.
    Either of those are potentially very worthy of a dip for the right class
    
    
  • Int: Book of shadows (see above) or
    
    Spoiler: Pact Familiar

    [*]PACT FAMILIAR
    Conjuration Cantrip (Warlock)
    Casting Time: 1 hour
    Range: 10 feet
    Component: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You summon an unearthly entity to serve you. It
    manifests in an unoccupied space of your choice
    within range. This creature uses the Pact
    Familiar stat block. If you already have a familiar
    from this spell, that familiar transforms into the
    new one but retains its memories; you don’t get
    a second Pact Familiar.
    Whenever you cast the spell, choose the
    familiar’s creature type: Aberration (flumph or
    knot of tentacles), Celestial (owl, raven, or other
    bird), Dragon (pseudodragon or similar
    dragonet), Fey (pixie or sprite), Fiend (imp or
    quasit), or Undead (shadow or skull). This choice
    affects the familiar’s default appearance, as
    noted in the parentheses, and it determines
    certain traits in its stat block. You can alter
    details of the creature’s appearance each time
    you summon it.
    Combat. The familiar is an ally to you and your
    companions, and it obeys you. In combat, it
    shares your Initiative count, but it takes its turn
    immediately after yours. On its turn, the familiar
    takes the Dodge action and uses its Move to
    avoid danger, unless you use your Reaction to
    command it to attack instead.
    Disappearance of the Familiar. The familiar
    disappears if it drops to 0 Hit Points, if you
    dismiss it as a Bonus Action, or if you die. When
    it disappears, it leaves behind anything it was
    wearing or carrying. If you cast this spell again,
    you decide whether you summon the familiar
    that disappeared or a different one.
    Remote Viewing. As a Magic action, you can
    see what your familiar sees and hear what it
    hears until the end of your next turn.
    Cantrip Upgrade. Starting when you reach 5th
    level as a Warlock, you can communicate
    telepathically with your familiar as long as you
    two are on the same plane of existence.
    Additionally, while perceiving through your
    familiar’s senses, you can also speak through
    your familiar in your own voice. the statblock doesn't copy/paste well so I'm not including it here
  • cha: Pact familiar (or pact weapon (see above)
• Always prepared without counting against your prep slot allotment: Burning hands & command spell

That is a very dip-worthy start but it's stuff that is probably in the right weight class for a two level dip on a pc who could have 18 more levels of some other class. The dip is not done though & that's where problems start to enter. On top of all that a warlock dip grants two invocation choices & some of those are very much above the weight class of a level 2 ability.

Spoiler: Invocation Options

Prerequisite: None Invocations... A lot of these are targeted to "is this appropriate to a level 2 warlock who can't swap out for an improved version later despite the ability to swap them at some points" without enough consideration for "are two of these appropriate for a two level dip?" where the answer is often no. F/Ex: anything that grants a free spell is probably a little too good coming with cantrips four other prepped/always ready spells plus a free cast of one from two more always prepped spells once /long rest andone more invocation.

• Agonizing Blast: EB scales by warlock level, total nonissue. Great for no prereq invocation
• Armor of Shadows: free mage armor casting without needing to prep or use a slot.... We don't yet know what the new mage armor will be but even with the old one No this is probably a little too good coming with cantrips four other prepped/always ready spells plus a free cast of one from two more always prepped spells once /long rest and one more invocation.
• Beast Speech: Speak with animals igot screwy somewhere along the line. Back in 2e & 3.x it used to say things
  Spoiler: like this

  although the spell doesn’t make them any more friendly or cooperative than normal. Furthermore, wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments. If an animal is friendly toward you, it may do some favor or service for you.
  while now it just outright says:
  he knowledge and awareness of many beasts is limited by their intelligence, but at minimum, beasts can give you information about nearby locations and monsters, including whatever they can perceive or have perceived within the past day
  and it makes the GM look adversarial if the beast doesn't give good answers that lead to it being an unfun "ok lets go" solution
• Devil's Sight:"Is the VTT going to require five thousand dollar alienware laptops or can we use normal computers?" ->"is that a feature you would want?" Removing the ability to limit sight radius in dark & similar conditions is a great way to ensure that much larger areas need to be rendered... Also for setups using a shared screen on the table it results in everyone having 120ft of vision that ignores darkness. "it's meant to be creepy so the dim light uncanny valley iffy middleground is intended." doesn't solve any problems & is the result of such hair splitting levels of word mincing that it makes the GM look adversarial if they actually ever push that line. Just set this to level 4-5 or something if the 120ft needs to stay. Add darkvision or 60ft one for no prereq & let PC's going mostly warlock swap it later for this.
• Eldritch Spear: Links to EB & EB only scales by warlock level now
• Eyes of the Runekeeper: If an ability forces the GM to write everything not written in common in the form of code or riddle it's probably too good for the dip
• Hexer: 600ft range on hex & advantage on con saves to maintain concentration. Not sure how I feel about this but it's probably fine
• Lesson's of the First Ones: Gain a first level feat of your choice?... no this is way too good for part of a dip on top of everything else the dip grants. It should absolutely have a higher prerequisite even if that results in feat+something else
• Mask of Many Faces: Disguise Self without expending spell slots?... this only gets better the higher level the PC with it gets. This should absolutely not be available at level 2
• Misty Visions: Cast Silent image without burning spell slots. cool, fits great for a very small part of a dip
• Repelling Blast: EB scales by warlock level, total nonissue. Great for no prereq invocation

Non-Dip invocations:

• Favor of the chain Master: This is really cool & I love almost all of them but at will charm & fear from fey/undead is almost certainly wayy too good
• Gaze of two Minds: This is a really awesome ability that adds nice reciprocity within the party for things like helpung the scout(rogue) scout/watching their back or being in the room with the face type to maybe call for help while they are away from the group for whatever reason.
• Gift of the protectors: I like the idea behind this but the 1hp yoyohealing thing no longer needs to exist, maybe change the result to warlock level HP or something & make it feel less like it's abusing an exploit in reality?
• Lifedrinker: Kinda cool & the THP is nearly fitting with the sketchy arcane gish vibes
• Master of myriad forms: natural weapons & aquatic adaptation are almost never the reason anyone casts alter self. They cast it to move around like mystique while confusing d&d for some kind of roguelike built to not leave every other player at the table in an unfun thumb twiddling state of background.
• Mystic Arcanum: This is awesome for warlocks & high enough to not be just a small part of dip candy

Most of those prereq NONE invocations on their own are trying to support wayyy above the weightclass of what a tier 1 (level 1-4) PC has the resource pool & durability to handle & that becomes problematic in a dip where the PC is bringing up to 18 levels of some other class - AND- a second pick from that list of invocations. If those invocations were split into a much weaker tier appropriate version with the existing version split off into a warlock 4-5 or whatever version, warlocks would be mostly unaffected because they can swap them at later levels but the problem of having two above weightclass abilities on top of everything else in the first spoiler in a dip would clear up.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

This is my one bummer of the system... the one class that has been the foundational "dip" class is the one with perhaps the greatest narrative background and the least suited story-wise for dipping. Rarely do people dip warlock because they want to play the story of coming upon some patron mid-campaign and incorporate that pact into their adventures... they do it purely for the game mechanics boost. And in that regard, I almost thus wish it was one of the more generic classes-- fighter, rogue-- that was that foundational dip that everyone wanted. There's much less story and background you have to ignore in the class if you multiclass fighter or rogue just for the mechanics.

But that ship sailed a long time ago and I've come to accept it.

I know how you feel. I used to say to dippers (something along the lines of), "You sold YOUR SOUL for Eldritch Blast!? Souls come cheap these days."

 

[MarkB]

I know how you feel. I used to say to dippers (something along the lines of), "You sold YOUR SOUL for Eldritch Blast!? Souls come cheap these days."

Nah, that patron reward only unlocks at higher tier levels. If you're supporting a warlock only at the Eldritch Blast tier that just unlocks the basic rewards of being able to make obscurely-worded prognostications during resting and meditation periods.

You need to be pledging at least at the Mystic Arcanum tier to unlock patron rewards relating to the warlock's eternal soul.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Nah, that patron reward only unlocks at higher tier levels. If you're supporting a warlock only at the Eldritch Blast tier that just unlocks the basic rewards of being able to make obscurely-worded prognostications during resting and meditation periods.

You need to be pledging at least at the Mystic Arcanum tier to unlock patron rewards relating to the warlock's eternal soul.

I like how you call selling your soul a "reward".

 

[Gorck]

It will be interesting to see how the 2024 Monk shakes out. If it's not too different from the 2014 Monk (that gets proficiency with all simple weapons and shortswords), it may be worth taking a dip into BladeWarlock to be able to conjure a weapon you can use your Wisdom with. That way the class wouldn't be as MAD as it used to be.

ETA: I wonder if you can take the Armor of Shadows invocation the supplement the lower DEX for your AC with Unarmored Defense (13 + DEX + WIS)?

 

[Aldarc]

That is actually a very good point about the new warlock that I hadn't thought of. Thank you. Doesn't solve, but does ameliorate the issue.

But really, deep down inside, you know it's because your patron is a fiend.

 

[Charlaquin]

Nah, that patron reward only unlocks at higher tier levels. If you're supporting a warlock only at the Eldritch Blast tier that just unlocks the basic rewards of being able to make obscurely-worded prognostications during resting and meditation periods.

You need to be pledging at least at the Mystic Arcanum tier to unlock patron rewards relating to the warlock's eternal soul.

Wouldn’t it be the patron who unlocks rewards from the artistWarlock?

 

[DEFCON 1]

...it's because your patron is a fiend.

Sung to the tune of "The Lady Is A Tramp".

 

[Neonchameleon]

Ah, you're right, for some reason I thought with pact weapon the only way to get extra attack was through the spell. That makes the ol' pallock viable in 1D&D!

That also enables a new build, the WaRanger! WIS primary, and uses the "returning" feature of the pact weapon to make throwing attacks all the time.

And even potentially the WaFighter. Who cares about casting (although having Shield on your list is golden for a fighter). Thrown tridents are the weapon of choice here I think so that every throw comes with a Topple.