Warlocks and Craft Magic

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Ok, here's the deal. The Warlock has the Decieve Item (4th lvl) and Imbue Item (12th lvl). The first allows them to take 10 on any "Use Magic Device" {which is a class skill}. The second lets them replace a "Use Magic Device" check with the actual spell required.

Now there are two different DCs for Imbue Item: Arcane spells are 15 + spell lvl; Divine spells are 25 + spell lvl.

Now this is where I find it gets scary. To "cast" a 9th lvl Arcane spell the DC is 24; however, the smart Warlock will take 10, droping it to 14. Assuming he was built for this his "Use Magic Device" will be at '15' when he hits lvl 12. Right there the PC has surpassed the DC. And that is not counting the CHA Modifier, any magic items that add to CHA, the Magical Aptitude feat and/or Skill Focus (Use Magic Device).

As I see it the Warlock can get a 'min' "Use Magic Device" of +37 from the following
+10 (taking 10)
+5 (CHA)
+15 (skill ranks)
+2 (Magical Aptitude)
+3 (Skill Focus (Use Magic Device))
+2 (synergy from Spellcraft)
Now I didn't bother adding in Magic Items simply because there is no need since the highest DC to beat (34) is for 9th lvl Divine spells. Even when they hit Epic, their skills and everything else will make the effort more a matter of time, spell components, and XP.

 

[pawsplay]

The only major limitations on a warlock's crafting abilities are XP costs and their caster level.

Fact: there are two kinds of characters who can make a holy weapon, characters with the Good domain, and warlocks.

 

[Sithobi1]

*cough*Artificers*cough*

 

[Kurotowa]

This one again?

It's real simple. Imbue Item only lets the Warlock fake having spells to meet prereqs, not caster level. Caster level is not a class feature and not part of Imbue Item, so the Warlock has to use his own. The caster level listed with items is only the default caster level, not a prereq. However some types of item do have their own caster lever requirements.

Can a Warlock use Scribe Scroll to get 9th level spells at 12th level? No, he doesn't have the caster level 17 required to make it.

Can a Warlock make weapons and armor of ultimate might at 12th level? No, his caster level limits him to a +4 bonus.

Can a Warlock make a Ring of Three Wishes or Staff of Life at 12th level? Yes, but at a steep price. The cost for the Ring will set him back over a level in XP and nearly a tenth of his GP value, while the Staff of Life is half a level and almost his entire worth in GP.

So by the book, no there's not much room for abuse. A canny player with a lax DM might twist things by creating Wonderous Items with the spell effects he wants. But that sort of things is easily squashed. Does that answer your concerns.

 

[brehobit]

This one again?

It's real simple. Imbue Item only lets the Warlock fake having spells to meet prereqs, not caster level. Caster level is not a class feature and not part of Imbue Item, so the Warlock has to use his own. The caster level listed with items is only the default caster level, not a prereq. However some types of item do have their own caster lever requirements.

<clip>

So by the book, no there's not much room for abuse. A canny player with a lax DM might twist things by creating Wonderous Items with the spell effects he wants. But that sort of things is easily squashed. Does that answer your concerns.

Yep, but opening up the possiblity of having those spells, given a lot of preperation, is really handy. A high level warlock should have a large number of spells on scrolls. A large number.

I don't think it is a problem, but when people argue that high-level warlocks are weak, they need to understand it depends on the game. If the warlock has the downtime needed, and the feat, he can make the scrolls. If not, he may be able to buy them. Really makes a high-level warlock much more flexible than they look. Having the ability to cast "heal" when you _really_ need it is a good thing though (about 750GP and 66 EXPs to make I believe). Worth every penny.

 

[Kurotowa]

Yep, but opening up the possiblity of having those spells, given a lot of preperation, is really handy. A high level warlock should have a large number of spells on scrolls. A large number.

I don't argue that. When I played a Warlock I had quite the scroll library and made regular use of Scribe Scroll. All I'm saying is that using Scribe Scroll is limited by your caster level, so a Warlock can't be making scrolls of 9th level spells before he reaches 17th level. It's still very useful. But what (I think) the OP was talking about can't be done.

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Srry Kurotowa, just didnt see any refernece to this in any of the other Warlock posts that I looked at.

Can a Warlock use Scribe Scroll to get 9th level spells at 12th level? No, he doesn't have the caster level 17 required to make it.

Actually the "Use Magic Device" does not ask for a caster lvl when casting from a scroll.

Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a praticular spell on your class spell list. The DC is 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. <CLIP> In addtion, casting from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ablilty, you must emulate the ability score with a seperate Use Magic Device.

That means 20 + 17 or 37, which as I stated ealier, would the the 'min' a Warlock should achieve if going this route.
EDIT: The DC to "emulate the ability score" is your roll minus 15, in this case 37-15=22. That emulated ability is high enough to 'cast' 12 lvl spells.

Can a Warlock make a Ring of Three Wishes or Staff of Life at 12th level? Yes, but at a steep price. The cost for the Ring will set him back over a level in XP and nearly a tenth of his GP value, while the Staff of Life is half a level and almost his entire worth in GP.

As you said here that is the major and true equalizer to these two class abilities. If not for the XP, components and time, which I made a vague reference to at the end of my first post, they would be completely overpowered.

 

[MarkB]

Srry Kurotowa, just didnt see any refernece to this in any of the other Warlock posts that I looked at.



Actually the "Use Magic Device" does not ask for a caster lvl when casting from a scroll.

Kurotowa wasn't talking about using UMD to cast spells from scrolls, he was talking about using UMD in conjunction with Scribe Scroll and the warlock's Imbue Item ability to scribe spells to scrolls. In this usage, there is a caster level requirement, and UMD cannot be used to fake it.

 

[starwed]

In this usage, there is a caster level requirement, and UMD cannot be used to fake it.

Call me stupid, but I can't find this requirement in the section on crafting scrolls. Could you quote it?

 

[irdeggman]

The way I read the Deceive Item ability will not allow it for all UMD checks (like the one to create a magic item via Imbue Spell).


The text for Deceive Item most definitely implies it only works when using a magic item.

"At 4th level and higher, a warlock has the ability to more easily commandeer magic items made for the use of other characters. When making a UMD check, a warlock can take 10 even if distracted or threatened."

And the fact that it even allows a warlock to take 10 at all is big since the skill doesn't allow you to take 10 (even if not threatened or rushed).