Warlocks and Craft Magic

[MarkB]

Call me stupid, but I can't find this requirement in the section on crafting scrolls. Could you quote it?

It's in the Magic Item Basics section.

Caster Level

The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Unless you are high enough level to cast the spell, it's impossible for you to set the caster level high enough to cast the spell, as required.

 

[Kurotowa]

Call me stupid, but I can't find this requirement in the section on crafting scrolls. Could you quote it?

Yeah, it not in an obvious place. But you can find it here:

Caster Level

...

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Alright. I was unaware of that particular rule dealing with creating scrolls, wands, and potions. That still means the Warlock can do anything upto 6th lvl spells.

As for "Decieve Item", if you ignore the name which I find is decieving at times *cough*Sneak Attack*cough*, it states

At 4th level and higher, a warlock has the ability to more easily commandeer magic items made for the use of other characters. When making a UMD check, a warlock can take 10 even if distracted or threatened.

The two ablilities are not from to seperate sources. I feel that if WotC wanted these abilities to be mutually exclusive of one another, it would have been stated somewhere in the class. Since "Imbue Item" causes a UMD check and the "Decieve Item" allows you to take a 10 on all UMD checks, logic dictates that you can take a 10 with the "Imbue Item" check.

Also, where would I find the Artificers class?

PS. TY all for the info/discussion

 

[brehobit]

The way I read the Deceive Item ability will not allow it for all UMD checks (like the one to create a magic item via Imbue Spell).


The text for Deceive Item most definitely implies it only works when using a magic item.

"At 4th level and higher, a warlock has the ability to more easily commandeer magic items made for the use of other characters. When making a UMD check, a warlock can take 10 even if distracted or threatened."

And the fact that it even allows a warlock to take 10 at all is big since the skill doesn't allow you to take 10 (even if not threatened or rushed).

I'd argue the first sentence is flavor text and the second is the rule. In any case, the 2nd just says "When making a UMD check..."

I can understand your reading of it. It might be a good way to do it. But I don't think it is what it saying.

 

[Kurotowa]

Also, where would I find the Artificers class?

It's part of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

 

[irdeggman]

As for "Decieve Item", if you ignore the name which I find is decieving at times *cough*Sneak Attack*cough*, it states

The two ablilities are not from to seperate sources. I feel that if WotC wanted these abilities to be mutually exclusive of one another, it would have been stated somewhere in the class. Since "Imbue Item" causes a UMD check and the "Decieve Item" allows you to take a 10 on all UMD checks, logic dictates that you can take a 10 with the "Imbue Item" check.

Now this is where I find "color" text to be useful. It helps to determine the "intent" of the actual rule.

So in this case the "name" must be ignored and also the 1st sentence. Which leaves only the second sentence. So 2 of 3 things must be ignored (or dismissed) as being germaine to what the ability is supposed to do in order to allow taking 10 on UMD for imbuing an item.

Now titles of feats are specfically chosen to have an "effective" or "dramatic" name like the name of Prestige Classes and these do not necessarily reflect the meaning, intent or actual mechanic/rule. So ignoring the "name" of the ability is nothing really (what I mean is that is to be expected since as you pointed out the names are often "deceiving").

But what is happening is that what I would consider a preponderance of evidence is being ignored and a minimal amount of evidence is being used to suport the stance.

It must be noted that the entire imbue item ability allows the use of the UMD skill in a way that is not in the rules nor is under the umbrella of what the skill actually does (per the PHB).

The artificer class (from Eberron setting) gets similar item creation ability but the text there is roughly 4 times as long and specifically talks about bonuses the class gets to these checks.

Now, having said all of that - the rules are not specific on this issue so there is room to interpret them in multiple way. I am only pointing out how my logic works in how I interpret it.

 

[starwed]

Luckily, we don't even have to divine designer intent from hints in the rules. Rich Baker was very responsive to questions asked on wizard's forums, and you can find an archive of his responses here.

Q: Is the warlock still able to make use of the "Take 10" option when crafting magic items?

A: No, I wanted Deceive Item to make the warlock the master of using spell trigger items.