Warlock's Devil's Sight questions

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

"Intentional", yeah sure. If Devil's Sight was intended to have this subtle and weird interaction with dim light, why isn't it explicitly called out in the rule? I'm 95% sure that Crawford is just pulling a post-hoc explanation out of his food waste dispenser to make it sound like the RAW and RAI matched all along. It's not a bug, it's a feature!

 

[Sword of Spirit]

"Intentional", yeah sure. If Devil's Sight was intended to have this subtle and weird interaction with dim light, why isn't it explicitly called out in the rule? I'm 95% sure that Crawford is just pulling a post-hoc explanation out of his food waste dispenser to make it sound like the RAW and RAI matched all along. It's not a bug, it's a feature!

You could always ask him if that's the RAI. He usually answers/interprets RAW unless otherwise stated. (I'd ask myself, but I don't get answers. Maybe my Twitter profile isn't filled out enough to get past a filter.)

 

[Arial Black]

Vision, as a sense, is the detection of light. If there is no light to see, you cannot see. If there is less light than you would need to see things clearly but enough light to see a bit, then there are penalties to your vision.

But Devil's Sight lets you 'see' even without any light whatsoever! It lets you 'see', without any light, as if there were enough light to see clearly.

Therefore, if you don't need light to see then the lack of light, to any degree, is not an issue: you can 'see' clearly.

Not only that, but if you can see clearly but you don't need any light to do so, then the presence of any light is irrelevant! Bright light doesn't prevent you from 'seeing' clearly, and partial (or dim) light doesn't prevent you from 'seeing' clearly either!

Your eyes are still able to detect light in the normal way, since Devil's Sight doesn't take away your ability to see normally, so the presence of some light is no hindrance at all!

 

[cooperjer]

Vision, as a sense, is the detection of light. If there is no light to see, you cannot see. If there is less light than you would need to see things clearly but enough light to see a bit, then there are penalties to your vision.

But Devil's Sight lets you 'see' even without any light whatsoever! It lets you 'see', without any light, as if there were enough light to see clearly.

Therefore, if you don't need light to see then the lack of light, to any degree, is not an issue: you can 'see' clearly.

Not only that, but if you can see clearly but you don't need any light to do so, then the presence of any light is irrelevant! Bright light doesn't prevent you from 'seeing' clearly, and partial (or dim) light doesn't prevent you from 'seeing' clearly either!

Your eyes are still able to detect light in the normal way, since Devil's Sight doesn't take away your ability to see normally, so the presence of some light is no hindrance at all!

If the game rules modeled physics I could see the logic in the argument. The game rules attempt to provide guidance to create a world of fiction. That could be heroic, horror, romance, comedy, etc. I would recommend embrasing that fiction rather than trying to apply physics or biology.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well, from a physics POV, colours don't exist in the absence of light. So if a power gave you the ability to see colours in total darkness you wouldn't see anything.

So we have to conclude that Devil's Sight is just a way of tricking gullible suckers into selling their souls.

 

[Oofta]

Vision, as a sense, is the detection of light. If there is no light to see, you cannot see. If there is less light than you would need to see things clearly but enough light to see a bit, then there are penalties to your vision.

But Devil's Sight lets you 'see' even without any light whatsoever! It lets you 'see', without any light, as if there were enough light to see clearly.

Therefore, if you don't need light to see then the lack of light, to any degree, is not an issue: you can 'see' clearly.

Not only that, but if you can see clearly but you don't need any light to do so, then the presence of any light is irrelevant! Bright light doesn't prevent you from 'seeing' clearly, and partial (or dim) light doesn't prevent you from 'seeing' clearly either!

Your eyes are still able to detect light in the normal way, since Devil's Sight doesn't take away your ability to see normally, so the presence of some light is no hindrance at all!

Rules Lawyer Answer:
Darkness is defined on page 183 of the PHB as being a heavily obscured area. If the PC is not effectively blinded, then it's not darkness. Because we couldn't possibly use logic, we must adhere to the letter of the rules and only the rules. Buddy has a torch? You can see fine for a while, then an area of light obscurement and then perfectly fine again.

Jeremy Crawford Tweets
Your PC must be in darkness for DS to kick in.
or
You are unaffected by darkness to 120 feet, you see normally, but dim light is still dim light [no direct answer on the bright light/dim light/darkness]

Personal ruling (which has changed a bit after more thought):
You can see in darkness, but not in or through dim light. So in the torch scenario you see normally, then you effectively hit a dim light as a barrier. The area of dim light effectively acts as light obscurement, a fog that you can't see through. So you see just as well as your buddy if he has a torch. Being able to see OK after the area of dim light would be like saying you could see fine on the other side of a small patch of fog. To me that makes the most sense based on how the power is worded.

Of course your ruling is perfectly fine as well.

 

[The Scythian]

To complicate things, I'll point out that the ability truesight (PHB, 185 and MM, 9) is worded in a similar way. RAW, it doesn't interact with dim light at all.

Also, darkvision is worded similarly in the section on visibility (PHB, 183), but because its interactions with dim light are detailed in the sections for different races and also in the Monster Manual, that's not actually a problem.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sorry but I think if you can see in darkness as you would normally see in light, it doesn't make sense for dim light to have any effect on you.

I do agree about probably needed sight in general to be able to see in darkness, and also agree about not being able to see through thick fog or similar.

Oh it makes a lot of sense. It would make even more sense if de ils were blind in bright light.
Dim light is an unfavourable condition for devilsight. There is not enough light to see normally, but it is not the heart of darkness you have sold your soul.