D&D General Warlocks' patrons vs. Paladin Oaths and Cleric Deities

[Neonchameleon]

I'd argue that if the paladin character doesn't get near oathbreaker status at a few points, why did they bother playing a paladin in the first place?

For starters because Oathbreaker is comically evil. Oath of Vengeance or Oath of Redemption both to me look like much more interesting and nuanced changes to flirt with. Or even the implicit nihilism of Oath Of Glory.

 

[tetrasodium]

Well I'll go to horny jail for this, but I definitely think that some Great Old Ones Warlocks had the type of encounter you see in Hentai Anime with tentacles and their patron.

Your quite a few years late to worry.
[

Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion

A spell employed by Vaarsuvius in The Dungeon of Dorukan to defeat the chimera Trigak. It is a fictitious spell, based off Evard's Black Tentacles. According to The Giant, he was looking for the most painful sounding name for a spell.[1] He also later stated that he regrets this joke, due to its...

oots.fandom.com

may have hinted a villain or two had such a spell over the years

 

[Scribe]

Well I'll go to horny jail for this, but I definitely think that some Great Old Ones Warlocks had the type of encounter you see in Hentai Anime with tentacles and their patron.

 

[Maxperson]

If you look at the paladin tenets in the 2024 rules, they have been made so broad that it is almost impossible to break them, unless the player says their character believes they have broken them.

And that's a big problem. Tenets are an RP aid and should be more specific. Breaking them leads to great roleplaying opportunities along redemption arcs, changing to a different subclass(not just oathbreaker), oathbreaker, in-fiction consequences(good, bad, and neutral), and more.

Making them that broad does the game and its players a disservice. There's no point in even having them.

The entire point of a paladin is having faith in something so strongly that you get power from it. You can't believe in vague, nearly meaningless things to that point.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And that's a big problem. Tenets are an RP aid and should be more specific

It was necessary to solve another another big problem - DMs screwing with paladins.

But there is no reason the player can’t expand on the tenets of their oath.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well I'll go to horny jail for this, but I definitely think that some Great Old Ones Warlocks had the type of encounter you see in Hentai Anime with tentacles and their patron.

It really boils down to warlocks being all about the sex. Fiendpact has succubus, archfey have a thing for warlocks with ass’s heads, etc

Apart from celestials, who are a bunch of prudes.

 

[tetrasodium]

It was necessary to solve another another big problem - DMs screwing with paladins.

But there is no reason the player can’t expand on the tenets of their oath.

Hypothetical problem. Did it ever happen? Sure. Did it happen more often than the need to make serious efforts at maintaining the oath added to the game with paladin players proactively making an effort to maintain their oath? Absolutely not. Paladin carries weight because it's not simply a mildly devoted warrior of a vaguely defined nebulous hint of something.

Paladin (Dungeons & Dragons) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePaladin

 

[Blue]

And do you force rogues to steal stuff?

Does the rogue have a sidebar in their class telling that they need to follow the oaths and the mechanical repercussions if they do not?

 

[Maxperson]

It was necessary to solve another another big problem - DMs screwing with paladins.

Which hasn't really been a thing since 3e, and even then it was far less than 1e and 2e. Other than the odd bad DM here and there, it just isn't an issue.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd argue that if the paladin character doesn't get near oathbreaker status at a few points, why did they bother playing a paladin in the first place?

Oathbreaker isn't a status condition indicating bad play, it should indicate that you played your character to the hilt and paid the price.

Remember, the point of play is not to play the concept you came up with at the start of the game and just keep it the same the whole game. Characters should want to grow and change, often in ways you (as a player) may not have anticipated when the game started.

Yeah. I worded that poorly. My post was from the viewpoint that the player didn't want to be an oathbreaker, but instead picked a paladin and is breaking his oaths left, right and center while still wanting to be that paladin subclass. If that's the case, then the player has screwed up. Either with his choice of RP, or with his choice of subclass.