Warmage and Extra Spell

[Thanee]

Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school.

Does this mean, that wizards can choose any spell with their free level up spells then?

Bard spells, or divine spells, ..., where's the limit here?

And no, it's not this part: "The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast", which only limits the spell level.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Thanee, until you can cite an official ruling on this...

Ok, why not...

A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

So, even if you could learn a spell outside of the class spell list (I actually know of no rule, apart from common sense, which restricts learning spells to the class spell list), you could still not cast it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bad Paper]

Orb of Force...no save and no SR......this spell bugs me for some reason.

It requires a ranged touch attack, and it's fourth level. Those are two reasons it's balanced. OoF bugs me, too, but I didn't nix it from my game. If you have to burn a fourth-level spell just to hit a golem, well, hey, at least you're not useless anymore. I am more annoyed with Stars of Arvandor, because now there's a druid playing with ranged-touch magic missiles.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

And where exactly is the part in the feat description, that talks about changing the class spell list then?

Bye
Thanee

Fair enough - it's not explicit, by any means, but the section where I get my interpretation is this:

For classes that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

Now, I certainly acknowledge that if the character had failed to learn a spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list or had otherwise used up all of the "free spells" for levelling up, then this feat would be a valid way to learn another spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, but my reading of it is that this also allows the character to learn one spell NOT on their class's spell list. I think that one feat/one spell off your own list is a fair trade. I don't believe that spending a feat to get a spell that you could trade for or reasearch later in your career is reasonable, at least not for a wizard. Sorcerers or bards getting access to new spells is a big deal. For wizards, that's their shtick.

 

[Scion]

I finally got back to my books.

Is there errata somewhere I see no reason why the feat wouldnt allow someone to grab a spell from any class list.

I'd have no problem with a sorc grabbing a cleric spell or the other way around, it looks like that is what it was 'designed' to do after all.

So, is there errata or something? or are people just inserting words that arent there?

 

[RigaMortus]

As it appears in Complete Arcane:

EXTRA SPELL
Benefit: You learn one additional spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. Thus, a 4th-level sorcerer (maximum spell level 2nd) gains a new 0-level or 1st-level spell known with which to expand her repertoire. For classes such as a wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time, you learn a new spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can cast.

I guess my question would be, if a 4th level sorcerer wanted to learn a Cleric spell (say, Cure Light Wounds), how would this feat qualify him to do that? Sorcerer's cast Sorcerer/Wizard spells, not Cleric spells. A 4th level Sorcerer can cast up to 2nd level Sorcerer spells, not 2nd level Cleric spells, right? Since a Sorcerer can't cast 2nd level Cleric spells (nor can it cast 1st or 0-level Cleric spells) it wouldn't qualify for that spell. Or am I missing something?

 

[Thanee]

or are people just inserting words that arent there?

That one.

The feat simply doesn't add spells to the class spell list.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

A fourth level sorc can normally cast 2nd level spells, which means he can get a 0th or 1st level spell with this feat.

Cure light wounds is a 1st level spell.

There is nothing said about how it is cast, which leads to it looking incomplete, but it can still be used. If we assume that it must be on the spell list, which isnt said nor even implied as far as I can tell, then it works but isnt as good. Plus there are other feats which already do similar things.

If we assume that they just missed a further explanation about it being an arcane spell when cast no matter where it came from (which could be assumed since it is an arcane person casting it) then it can easily work in the other way.

All I see for reqirements are 'spell' and 'one level lower in level than you are able to cast' and I see no reason to disallow other spell lists, especially for the cost of a feat. Not cheap

 

[Scion]

That one.

Well, I dont care much for people adding in words that arent there and saying it is the case. I'll just stick with what the feat says for now.

I dont see any major balance issues at all.

 

[Thanee]

Now, I certainly acknowledge that if the character had failed to learn a spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list or had otherwise used up all of the "free spells" for levelling up, then this feat would be a valid way to learn another spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, ...

And there is nothing else to it... hence the use of the word 'generally', which underlines, that that section does not add more options, but rather explains existing ones (in this case, how this feat could be useful to wizards still, altho they have so many options to aquire new spells already).

...but my reading of it is that this also allows the character to learn one spell NOT on their class's spell list.

That's more like wishful thinking, not reading.

There is no mentioning of the class spell list whatsoever, so reading that is impossible to begin with. Check Arcane Disciple for a feat, which actually does alter the class spell list, or the warmage's Advanced Learning ability. Both mention the list!

I think that one feat/one spell off your own list is a fair trade.

Sure, that might be, but it doesn't do that. As a house rule, that would be fine, tho.

I don't believe that spending a feat to get a spell that you could trade for or reasearch later in your career is reasonable, at least not for a wizard. Sorcerers or bards getting access to new spells is a big deal. For wizards, that's their shtick.

I agree, this feat is simply not good for wizards as written. Not every feat has to be.

Heighten Spell is also not good for wizards, but cool for sorcerers. Just like Extra Spell.

Bye
Thanee