Warmage and Extra Spell

[Ovinomancer]

"Spell Selection and Preparation: Until she prepares spells from her spellbook..."

Spells are prepared from the spellbook and the feat seems to put the spell there. Or there is some other 'learning' that is going on, but obviously the wizard can prepare the spell from wherever it is stored.

All you've found now is a rule that says you can prepare a spell from you spellbook. You still may not cast it unless it is on you spell list. Weird, I know.

 

[Thanee]

Hey, Thanee...

... what if a sorcerer does it?

Then we need to find out, what is meant with "primarily".

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Weird, I know.

The weird part is, that there seems to be no rule (apart from common sense), which states what spells arcane casters learn.

My best bet is, that learning is meant to be subsumed in casting (you need to learn a spell first in order to cast it), so the above-quoted limitation applies to both.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Then we need to find out, what is meant with "primarily".

This also plays into the usual problem...

These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study.

I think with "primarily" they either mean the sor/wiz spell list in the PHB, or it's meant to cover "research".

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

All you've found now is a rule that says you can prepare a spell from you spellbook. You still may not cast it unless it is on you spell list. Weird, I know.

First you must choose which spell to cast. If you’re a cleric, druid, experienced paladin, experienced ranger, or wizard, you select from among spells prepared earlier in the day and not yet cast

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.
If a spell has multiple versions, you choose which version to use when you cast it. You don’t have to prepare (or learn, in the case of a bard or sorcerer) a specific version of the spell

Looks like as long as you have it prepared and can do all of the components you can cast it to me.

 

[Jack Simth]

This also plays into the usual problem...





I think with "primarily" they either mean the sor/wiz spell list in the PHB, or it's meant to cover "research".

Bye
Thanee

.... although, the feat allows a Sorceror to learn a new spell (no limitation on where it comes from), Primarily isn't crystal clear (hmm.... would a feat qualify as "through study?") and a Sorceror can specifically

Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below).

To learn or cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Sorcerer. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.

A sorcerer’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered sorcerer level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the sorcerer “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level sorcerer spell the sorcerer can cast. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.

Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast.

(Emphasis added). Feat adds to spells known directly (as a specific feat that adds to spells known, it should bypass the normal restriction on Sorceror spells known), it must be an Arcane spell (which means he needs to grab them off the Bard's list, not the Cleric's or Druid's), but he can then get, say, Cure Critical Wounds (Bard 4), Hero's Feast (Bard 6), or Good Hope (Bard 3) to add to his list. Oddly, he still can't use an item with said spells (without UMD, anyway), because they aren't on his class list, but he can cast them just fine.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I would again point to Arcane Disciple. The argument of Extra Spell is moot with how much superior Arcane Disciple is, no matter how you interpret Extra Spell.

Arcane Disciple is a totally useless feat.
I don't know what the source is. If it's Complete Divine, as I suspect, the spell will continue to be useless, because that book is low on my priority list, and from my players - well, I'll be thrilled if any of them buys a PHB.

It seems like I heard some chatter about Arcane Disciple and that it allowed the caster to add a domain of spells offered by her patron as arcane spells. If that's, indeed, what it does, cool, sounds great, if a bit powerful, but what if the spell you want is not on a domain list? I guess I just don't understand you post, Abstraction.

 

[Caliban]

Arcane Disciple is a useless spell.
I don't know what the source is. If it's Complete Arcane, as I suspect, the spell will continue to be useless, because that book is low on my priority list, and from my players - well, I'll be thrilled if any of them buys a PHB.

It seems like I heard some chatter about Arcane Disciple and that it allowed the caster to add a domain of spells offered by her patron as arcane spells. If that's, indeed, what it does, cool, sounds great, if a bit powerful, but what if the spell you want is not on a domain list? I guess I just don't understand you post, Abstraction.

Um, "Arcane Disciple" is not a spell, it's a feat.

 

[Abstraction]

Arcane Disciple is a useless spell.
I don't know what the source is. If it's Complete Arcane, as I suspect, the spell will continue to be useless, because that book is low on my priority list, and from my players - well, I'll be thrilled if any of them buys a PHB.

It seems like I heard some chatter about Arcane Disciple and that it allowed the caster to add a domain of spells offered by her patron as arcane spells. If that's, indeed, what it does, cool, sounds great, if a bit powerful, but what if the spell you want is not on a domain list? I guess I just don't understand you post, Abstraction.

I guess that depends on how picky you are. There are a LOT of domains out there, now, depending on how many supplements you allow. I allow very few supplements and still there are a lot of domains. Was there a specific spell mentioned in the thread as "must-have"?

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I guess that depends on how picky you are. There are a LOT of domains out there, now, depending on how many supplements you allow. I allow very few supplements and still there are a lot of domains. Was there a specific spell mentioned in the thread as "must-have"?

Sure, I know that there are a lot of Domains to choose from. In my campaign, I currently allow domains from the following sources:
Player's Handbook
When the Sky Falls
Ghostwalk
Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
Book of Vile Darkness
Defenders of the Faith
Dieties and Demigods
Forgotten Realms Handbook
Dracomonicon
Traps & Treachery
Oriental Adventures
Book of Hallowed Might
Complete Warrior
and
Dragon Magazine
There still exists the possibility, even the likelyhood, that there is a clerical spell that a PC wizard would want that is not on a domain list.
I know, I know: "Ah Wah!" I'm not complaining that they can't get the spell, only pointing out that Arcane Disciple may or may not do everything that we might ask of Extra Spell. I don't know, because I don't actually know what Arcane Disciple allows.