Wars, Forts, and Nations, oh my!

[Shalewind]

Okay, I’ve been waiting for a rules set (house or otherwise) that deals with the big issues of nations: War and Populace.

Now this isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. I understand that. If wars to you are above the heroes, that’s fine. I like the occasion campaign where wars are the focus, nations are in the balance, and it takes those cunning generals to save the world. I’ve used house rule after suggestion and nothing has every given me what I really wanted.

There are a number of demographic sites and house rules sets out there, so I’m not really all that concerned about those. I’ve got my own opinions as well.

What I’m really looking for is running nations/estates, war, mass combat, and fort/siege warfare. There have been a few threads on these issues, but no one seems to have any really good source material.

Angramainyu’s Battlefield: d20 is really awesome, but a little math/calculation intensive. (see http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20323)
The DMG’s basics are nice for on the fly stuff, but not really a good source for a campaign focus.
I’ve flipped through a lot of the old Birthright stuff, and found SOME of it good. But I don’t have a lot of access to the material so I can’t get a good opinion.
I don’t own the Stronghold guide. I’ve heard good and bad.
And, I have given up hope on Eden Odyssey’s “Fields of Blood: The Book of War” whose release date has gone from 2001 to 2002 to TBA.

So I ask: what do all of you fans of war use? Are there any out there that like this mixed in with their heroic fantasy. (Don’t tell me to go play Warhammer, 3E has far more of what I want). If you have done this, what do you use? Give flames or advice as you see fit

 

[SylverFlame]

I use to do a LOT of pitched battle when I DM'd in 2e. The absolute easiest way to do it is to treat each army as if it was a massive character.

Essentially, you give them each an AC (based on the ability or soldiers) which can be 10+ average soldier level.

Next, they need an attack bonus (3e requires it, but the average level and using the fighter table should work).

Then, hit points. Simple, the number of soldiers in the army are the hit points.

Next, the hard part. A suitable damage die. I just assumed a D20 and multiplied by ten for large armies and 100 for huge armies.

The armies pound away at one attack per round and you throw soldiers and such at your players. You can even add bonus damage for having battle wizards and archer ranks. The reserves can be like healing potions and cavalry can add to attack and damage (specialization rules maybe?).

Of course, for really important battles, chance isn't a good thing. But if it's a generic battle in a long war, this works great. It's four extra rolls (if both sides hit) per combat round and works off the existing system.

 

[Tonguez]

I use a system using a Mechanic I call Unit Rating

Unit Rating (UR) = (Unit Size/100 +HD) x Unit Level

Unit Levels
1 Green
2 Rookie
3 Hardened
4 Veteran
5 Elite

Stat Block for this Unit goes
HP = (Unit Size x Level x 4)/Individual
AC = Individual AC +UR
BAb = Individual BAb +UR
Saves = Individual Saves +UR
etc

eg a Unit of 200 Hardened dwarfs
UR = 6 (200/100 x1 x 3)


HP 2400/12
AC 22 (16+6)
BAb 7 melee (1+6) 7 Ranged
Move 15 (Armour)
Damage 4 x face
Unit Feats: Sheild Wall


A Unit of 400 green Gnolls (HD 2)
UR = 8 (400/100x2x1)

HP 3200/8
AC 25 (17+8)
BAb 11 Melee (3+8) 9 Ranged (1+8)
Move 20
Damage 4 x face
Unit Feats: Track

For a quick battle just use D20 + UR opposed rolls
for a tactical battle play it out using the Unit BAbs vs Unit ACs.

eg Gnolls attack Dwarfs: Gnolls d20+11 vs Dwarf AC 22

 

[nutluck]

Mongoose Quint fighter has a section on massive combat, it looks like it would work well and seems fairly simple. I have yet to actually use it during play so not sure, but it might be worth a look.

 

[BlackRazor]

Build it !

My suggestion is to custom build your own system. Every groups love of math varies and nobody is usually able to agree on what make a good system. Create the rules that will suit your group.

If you have a group of ex-wargamer and math major, go at them full force, throwing into the mix complex equation like the effect of wind direction on arrow deviation and precise rule for food, marching time and population progression.

If your group is mainly musician, writer and other "sensitive" and "artisty" people, make rules that focus on the glory of thing, courage of commander and extraordinary feats of leadership on a more personal level, truning a war in a strange confrontation between the spirit and skill of the respective army commander instead of a matter of logistics and tactics. (Novel and literature usually go this way)

whatever the system you chose to build, take a few extra time to think about magic on the battlefield. You dont what to be surprised when the sorceror begin to throw his daily ration of 10D6 fireball with the widen meta-magics feat at packed infantry unit.

I have my own system but its written in french. while this explain my strange grammar, i would be happy to send it to you if you want.

- Sons of Scotland...

 

[Shalewind]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the tips.

<Can't speak French, sorry >

Actually, I'm a Computer Science/English Major (close to Math too!) The rest of my group, that's another matter:

1. Police Officer
2. English Secondary Teaching
3. Physics Major
4. Music Major
5. Permenent Student

And I have made my own battle system that sometimes works. I was just interested in what other good ideas were out there. I really like the unit rating and "massive character" stuff. Very similar to what I had in mind. Thanks again.

Now on the other side? Anyone have rules (or make-shift ideas)regarding kingdoms and maintaining them. I was thinking along the lines of diplomacy and trade relations?

 

[Tonguez]

Now on the other side? Anyone have rules (or make-shift ideas)regarding kingdoms and maintaining them. I was thinking along the lines of diplomacy and trade relations?

again Yes - though admittedly only playtested at 'Village' level

Faction Rules

A Faction is any organisation over which the PC has INFLUENCE and can range from a group of friends to a village to an entire Empire. The PC is able use their influence to call on their faction to assist them in various tasks which they cannot achieve alone

Parameters
Each organisation/faction is defined by four ‘Parameters’ (Faction ability scores determined on 3d6 (3 – 18)) these being Authority, Economics, Culture and Enforcement.

AUTHORITY represents the influence a faction has over others be it the compliance of its members to decisions or the Diplomatic influence which it can use to persuade
Actions: Appoint lieutenant, Collect Tribute/Tax, Decree, Claim Territory, Agitate, Diplomacy, Rally, Establish Trade Route


ENFORCEMENT: represents the ability of a faction to mobilise in response to challenges. Challenges can include civil emergency or attack, criminal activity and civil unrest. Enforcement includes Military and Judicial powers (Police and Courts) and use of espionage and ‘stealth’ actions
Actions: Recruit military, train military, policing, fortify, intimidate, sabotage, spy (gather info), raid, brigand, defend, escort, engage war.
*Guild level: Intimidate, police, sue, blockade

ECONOMY: represents the ability of a society to productivity use its resources (including trade) through harvest and construction/manufacture of products and also to effectively develop new resources and improve productivity
Actions: Harvest, Build(type), Establish holdings, Ply Trade, Improve holdings, improve lands

CULTURE: represents the ability of a society to cope with change and to acquire and use knowledge, ideas and practices through research and training. Culture is further exemplified through religious and social events and they prevalence and integrity of these things.
Actions: Training, Research, Preach, Evangelise, Festivals