Way to early PF3e thread

dave2008

Legend
As the title says, I know it is really too early to speculate; but heck, that is what we do! To be clear I don't think there is anything wrong with PF2e or that it needs to be fixed by a new edition. I do however, feel like a new edition is inevitable. Assuming Paizo continues at their typical pace, I think we can expect a new edition in the 5-10 year time frame. There are a couple things I would be interested in discussing:

1) What do expect in the PF3e, and..
2) What do you want to see in the PF3e core.

I will get this started:

What do I expect in PF3e:
  • Non-OGL compliant. PF2e is very little connection to PF1e, 3e, and D&D in general. I think a PF3e edition could, and should be completely its own thing. Personally, think that would be a good thing. I think it could and should have its own OGL type license, but not tied to D&D anymore.
  • Starfinder and PF3e to share the same rules from the get go.
  • Even more strongly tied to Glorian.
  • GM'sGuild or equivalent marketplace for 3pp / fan support.
  • A loosening or more opaque math game architecture. This is just based on the trend of reaction to change. 4e introduced tight math to D&D and it was pulled back in 5e. If PF2e is hugly successful, this may not happen.
What do I want in PF3e
  • A core vitality system. It may be an option, but I would like to see it in the core book. To be clear I would like to see a system of HP (abstract combat points: exhaust, luck, minor injuries) and vitality points(concrete combat points: meat points, real damage) or something similar.
  • A core option for armor as damage reduction.
  • 6-action economy or a revised 3-action system where all actions are integrated into the action economy.
  • Two separate lines or modes of play: basic & advanced. Basic would have reduced options, while advanced would have all of the bells and whistles.
 
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dave2008

Legend
I’d like to see Paizo lead with the Beginner’s Box instead of waiting a few years like they did with PF1 and probably will with PF2.
I've often wondering about just having boxed sets, like the BECMI series, but with more functionality. Each box would take you up in levels and provide an adventure and other PC and DM resources. I think it is an interesting way to curb the idea of planning out your character through 20 levels from the beginning.
 

kenada

Explorer
I've often wondering about just having boxed sets, like the BECMI series, but with more functionality. Each box would take you up in levels and provide an adventure and other PC and DM resources. I think it is an interesting way to curb the idea of planning out your character through 20 levels from the beginning.
I’m not sure that would mesh very well with the way Paizo designs APs. From what I understand PF2 APs go up to 20th level now by default. The point of having the Beginner’s Box out first is to have something to introduce new people into the game, then they can get on the AP/etc train. As it is currently, there’s nothing really targeted at new players like the D&D Starter Set and Lost Mine of Phandelver.
 

dave2008

Legend
I’m not sure that would mesh very well with the way Paizo designs APs. From what I understand PF2 APs go up to 20th level now by default. The point of having the Beginner’s Box out first is to have something to introduce new people into the game, then they can get on the AP/etc train. As it is currently, there’s nothing really targeted at new players like the D&D Starter Set and Lost Mine of Phandelver.
I realize it is not the current model, I am just wondering if it is something that could be feasible. I like the idea of gate keeping the game so that you can't just plan out 20 levels in advance. I realize we will never go back to those times, but it does interest me.
 

kenada

Explorer
I realize it is not the current model, I am just wondering if it is something that could be feasible. I like the idea of gate keeping the game so that you can't just plan out 20 levels in advance. I realize we will never go back to those times, but it does interest me.
Something like a Pathfinder BECMI? What would the pace of releases look like?

Stepping back a bit, is the goal to address character building? What I’d like is that options be treated as meaning something in the game world rather than just be treated as a grab bag of mechanics to MacGyver together into some arbitrary concept.
 

dave2008

Legend
Something like a Pathfinder BECMI? What would the pace of releases look like?
Yes, that is what I was thinking. That is a good question. For me I am thinking every both covers 5 levels and is released every 6 months to a year? In PF2e 5 levels is a significant jump in power and seems like a good place to start.
Stepping back a bit, is the goal to address character building? What I’d like is that options be treated as meaning something in the game world rather than just be treated as a grab bag of mechanics to MacGyver together into some arbitrary concept.
Partially. Some of it is just nostalgia too. It is also interesting to me that in both PF and D&D the beginner's box is often highly rated and praised, but then there is never a follow up. Why is that?

I just like the idea of getting a box with booklets (player and DM), dice, handouts (map), adventure, and maybe minis. And continue that trend for higher levels.
 
Man, its way too early to even try to guess, since pf3e will likely be shaped heavily by what they discover (after years of the playerbase enjoying the system) didn't work in pf2e, what designers paizo picks up or lose in the next 10 years, and what kinds of veteran players the current wave of Critical Role initiates mature into.

It'll depend heavily on what 6e Dungeons and Dragons looks like, and how successful that was, it'll depend heavily on what kind of niches exist in the RPG market of the time, and even on the possibility of real innovation happening in this space.

I will say, that I see PF2e lasting for at least a decade, and becoming way more popular than it is now- I wouldn't expect to see talk of a pf3e until 2028 at least, followed by another long playtest.
 

dave2008

Legend
I will say, that I see PF2e lasting for at least a decade, and becoming way more popular than it is now- I wouldn't expect to see talk of a pf3e until 2028 at least, followed by another long playtest.
I hope so. I see so little chatter about PF2e it gets me worried. I can't find a game locally (well after a few months I stopped looking), at my local game store they have gone form being very pro-PF to 5e champions with PF2e stuffed in a corner in the back of the shop, and I seem to be the only person PF2e threads in the PF forum and I don't even play the game!
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
As the title says, I know it is really too early to speculate; but heck, that is what we do! To be clear I don't think there is anything wrong with PF2e or that it needs to be fixed by a new edition. I do however, feel like a new edition is inevitable. Assuming Paizo continues at their typical pace, I think we can expect a new edition in the 5-10 year time frame.
You're on the wrong forum for this. 5-10 year time frame?

Most of us don't even buy green bananas anymore.
 

Philip Benz

Explorer
Some of us are very keen on PF2. But the best place to chat about it is really over on the Paizo forums. This said, I don't think too many folks will be losing sleep over speculation about a hypothetical PF3.

What I want to see with PF2 is more errata (like how many hands you need to use the Battle Medicine feat, or stats for familiars) and necessary elements to complete the setting, like firearms rules and sailing ship rules. I'm hoping we'll see some of this in the upcoming GMG.

In the meantime, Dave, if you really want to do some PF2 stuff, why not write a couple short PF2 scenarios? That's what I decided to do, to assuage my thirst for more PF2 play time.
 

dave2008

Legend
In the meantime, Dave, if you really want to do some PF2 stuff, why not write a couple short PF2 scenarios? That's what I decided to do, to assuage my thirst for more PF2 play time.
After my initial interest and then failure to join a group I have lost interest a bit. Life and my 5e group are taking up my time. I will probably pick up the GMG, but I don't think I will get a real chance to get back into PF2e until the summer.

I am curious if the GMG will address any of my wishes for PF3e - I think it might.
 

dave2008

Legend
I wouldn't expect to see talk of a pf3e until 2028 at least, followed by another long playtest.
That is what I expect as well, except maybe the long playtest part. If everything goes well with PF2e I would expect PF3e to be an evolution. I don't think they would need the long playtest 5e had and or really even the shorter playtest PF2e had.
 

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