D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Micah Sweet]

if the entire world has magic in it then i assume the people do too, i assume that the presense of magic in the people would naturally cause them to develop slightly differently from the people in the real world where magic isn't an environmental factor in their development, like my light/heavyworlder examples.

i said magic was an assumption of DnD worlds, you replied with:

so all the other stuff which is based on magic would therefore not exist in your world would it not?

I reject the assumption that, because magic exists in the setting, it exists in all the people too, making them different from real people who are otherwise virtually identical. If the game wants me to believe that, say it in the text.

 

[Micah Sweet]

just because the game turns the dials up a notch or two on what humans are capable of it doesn't make them suddenly completely unfamiliar to us, the answers to those questions will most likely stay the same for all of them.

it's like asking 'can a human be expected to jump across a 20ft gorge?' and being told 'no' but then asking 'can a human in an action movie be expected to jump across a 20ft gorge?' and being told 'oh of course every time'

Give me an example of a explicitly non-supernatural human being in a story jumping a 20 foot gorge unaided. Or from real life. That would work too.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam are both considered to be humans within the Loony Tunes universe (I think). Doesn't make them entirely like real world humans.

Are you seriously using a world with cartoon physics to illustrate your point?

 

[TwoSix]

I reject the assumption that, because magic exists in the setting, it exists in all the people too, making them different from real people who are otherwise virtually identical. If the game wants me to believe that, say it in the text.

If the game wants me to expect that humans are exactly like Earth humans despite the fact that wizards and monks exist, say it in the text.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If the game wants me to expect that humans are exactly like Earth humans despite the fact that wizards and monks exist, say it in the text.

So we at least agree that the text is needlessly vague. We just fall on different sides of what the implications of that are.

 

[Cadence]

If the game wants me to expect that humans are exactly like Earth humans despite the fact that wizards and monks exist, say it in the text.

And if they're not, I want the text to help us out by saying what the equivalent of an Olympic (or whatnot) level human athlete in that world can do physically for some basic things. What is a typical finalist's time in the 100m, mile, and marathon. Typical finalist's long jump and high jump. Typical finalist's weights in weightlifting. Maybe even give us some fictional examples to latch on to from a few media.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Give me an example of a explicitly non-supernatural human being in a story jumping a 20 foot gorge unaided. Or from real life. That would work too.

Seems pretty basic in wuxia genre.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Seems pretty basic in wuxia genre.

Wuxia is explicitly supernatural for my money.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Wuxia is explicitly supernatural for my money.

A bit like D&D! But 20 feet is actually well below world record for long jump…

 

[TwoSix]

So we at least agree that the text is needlessly vague. We just fall on different sides of what the implications of that are.

I never disagreed that the text shouldn’t be more prescriptive.