D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Crimson Longinus]

I guess one piece of guidance that would be helpful for me in campaign building as a DM and navigating the world as a PC is to know what the standard CRs of what you run into are. We had a game once where our characters entered a "fight club" kind of set-up and were pretty sure we would be plenty competent for it... and, uhm, weren't.

What CR is a typical city guard? Really competent city guard? Usual soldier? Typical everyday thing in the nearby woods? Thing that is known to show up but uncommon? The local priest? The wandering regional priest?

Yeah, very good point. I don't think there is much, if any, official guidance for that. It is something I have thought about for my own campaign, and I try to keep things consistent.

 

[James Gasik]

Unless the target was an elf. That really made the 1 year aging trivial. Worked kind of well for my elven ranger/magic user though.

Well except for that pesky system shock roll for a race with a -1 Constitution penalty.

 

[James Gasik]

It's kind of interesting that "Batman wizard" is a meme when part of Batman's claim to fame is being the only person on his team who isn't a wizard in some way.

Clarke's Third Law.

 

[Neonchameleon]

My argument has long been for non-casters to get a second subclass in the teens to show how they go above and beyond. Whether it's Celtic Myth style, Batman Style, being basically immune to magic, lethal killer who ignores hp, or what.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My argument has long been for non-casters to get a second subclass in the teens to show how they go above and beyond. Whether it's Celtic Myth style, Batman Style, being basically immune to magic, lethal killer who ignores hp, or what.

Similar to the 4e Epic Destiny then? I always thought that was one of their better ideas.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Similar to the 4e Epic Destiny then? I always thought that was one of their better ideas.

Yep. It would help to emphasise that at this point the character is transcending mere mundane and would help to explain why and how.

 

[Vaalingrade]

If we're not allowed to have new classes, then the only way I see forward is either Fighter and Rogue go back to formula without the current Thief or Champion in the way of design, or the designers go mask off and just remove the classes to focus on the aspect they actually care about.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Yeah, utterly Level 5 is like still a beginner adventurerer. Yes, they are not total noobs anymore, but they just graduated from slaying giant rats and baby dragons. I don't think a lot of people have a problem with Wizards and fighter at Level 5. It's the Levels above 12 that make problems.

Yeah, at 5th it's still arguably okay. I do think the gap widens significantly over the course of T2, with spells like Polymorph, and Wall of Force. Fighters would benefit a moderate boost in T2, but primarily in terms of utility, IMO.

It's really in T3 where that gap widens to a chasm, with spells like Mass Suggestion, Simulacrum, and Mind Blank. Fighters get their 3rd attack (roughly a 50% damage increase), a second use of indomitable, and some ASIs. That's nowhere close to on par. The wizard becomes effectively immune to all mind effects, and the fighter gets to take a feat that's balanced for level 1 characters?

Depending on the GMs generosity with magic items, that gap can be narrowed noticably, but IMO that is a terrible solution. Some GMs don't like to give out magic items. Some don't like handing out bespoke items, so what you end up with could be completely random and not especially helpful. Even a GM who tries to give out beneficial items, may not understand what the character actually needs. I've seen this plenty of times in play, where the GM gives out a custom built item that they think is perfect for that character, and then it sits unused in the character's inventory for the rest of the game.

If the game expects martials to have magic items to make up the gap, the tools for acquiring them ought to be built into the class. It would be like if the wizard didn't automatically gain new spells as they leveled, but had to find them. That could make the wizard pretty bad, depending on the game they were in and whether they ever found any decent spells.

 

[tetrasodium]

It's kind of interesting that "Batman wizard" is a meme when part of Batman's claim to fame is being the only person on his team who isn't a wizard in some way.

It wasn't about who had superpowers or was strongest When those builds were still a thing the wizard with no armor and d4 hit die was very much the fragile egg of the party who (like Batman) could crank his allows to Eleven on the dial or simply creat the conditions needed to end their former allies if pushed enough.

 

[Cadence]

There was another thread that tempted me to post this, but it feels more at home here.

In 1e Wizards were pretty awful at everything but spells. Bad to hit, d4 hit points, no armor. Imagine taking a real world stereotypical librarian or chemist (who didn't have a background of like being ex-military or mixed martial artist) but giving them a spectacular limited set of things they could call up once in a while, and then sending them off with the crew from Predator.

What if the full caster wizard with the current spell list went back to that - d4 hp, really bad to hit, etc... And then if someone doesn't want to be a complete glass cannon they should spend some levels multiclassing and getting trained in something combat useful.

Or, if that would be an unfun trap class for most people, put it in the DMG and make the default be a 3/4 caster and put that in the PHB.