D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[bloodtide]

Truly mundane superhero stories work because writing teams have complete narrative control to make it work. It's the Batman effect. Batman works because he was written to work. Okoye, Black Widow, and Hawkeye have advanced technology to support their combat skills. That correlates to magic items in D&D. Captain America is enhanced to have super high stats across the board, and somehow his shield always does what he wants.

I would also point out the fiction supports them...and always has. This really stands out in both Marvel and DC. Batman, Captain America and such heroes "just somehow" never encounter foes that can beat them or impossible situations. They most fight bruisers or low tech foes....and just avoid magic foes and high tech foes. There are a whole range of toxic chemicals that will effect any "normal human" with ease. Plus simple things like air and heat. But the foes just "never use them". And they never fight a foes that can do things like magic effectively. One spell and they can be put to sleep, or turned to stone. But a magic foe never "thinks" to do that...

But the D&D fiction only supports magic.

 

[Cadence]

I would also point out the fiction supports them...and always has. This really stands out in both Marvel and DC. Batman, Captain America and such heroes "just somehow" never encounter foes that can beat them or impossible situations. They most fight bruisers or low tech foes....and just avoid magic foes and high tech foes. There are a whole range of toxic chemicals that will effect any "normal human" with ease. Plus simple things like air and heat. But the foes just "never use them". And they never fight a foes that can do things like magic effectively. One spell and they can be put to sleep, or turned to stone. But a magic foe never "thinks" to do that...

But the D&D fiction only supports magic.

I mean, the DM could always make all the villains be really bad at strategy and tactics? (I guess they kind of are in that the big bad guys don't regularly pick off the little up and coming heroes proactively).

 

[Gammadoodler]

I mean, the DM could always make all the villains be really bad at strategy and tactics? (I guess they kind of are in that the big bad guys don't regularly pick off the little up and coming heroes proactively).

 

[W'rkncacnter]

god dammit, now i wanna watch the incredibles again.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I would also point out the fiction supports them...and always has. This really stands out in both Marvel and DC. Batman, Captain America and such heroes "just somehow" never encounter foes that can beat them or impossible situations. They most fight bruisers or low tech foes....and just avoid magic foes and high tech foes. There are a whole range of toxic chemicals that will effect any "normal human" with ease. Plus simple things like air and heat. But the foes just "never use them". And they never fight a foes that can do things like magic effectively. One spell and they can be put to sleep, or turned to stone. But a magic foe never "thinks" to do that...

But the D&D fiction only supports magic.

This runs rather against my experience with both Batman and Captain America.

 

[Lanefan]

It's at least a goal to drive at.

Why do you think it's a good one?

Mostly because despite their abilities most of the characters - even the most powerful - are largely still relatable-to as (fictionally) real people, and it's easy to imagine their fitting in with the commoners in the setting should they choose to do so.

And who would be the spellcasting exemplars from that setting?

For mages, the nearest it gets are the sorcerers at Qarth I think; though a game system would need to expand on/explain their powers into playable game terms. Failing that, it would be a pretty short jump to turn the Maesters into spellcasters - the whole learning and guild structure is already in place, nust need to give them spells.

For Cleric types there's a number of exemplars: Melisandre and Dondarrion as Clerics and the wildling skinchanger (whose name I forget right now) as a Druid...or end-game Bran as a Druid of sorts.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Not sure what the deal with Gandalf is. High level D&D magic is reliable, versatile, no cost, powerful, and plentiful.

Gandalf may be powerful and a bit versatile but his magic wasn't so plentiful, probably because there was some high hidden cost to it. Can't draw attention from the Eye, power waning because it wasn't his "age", etc.

He's another great example of magic having more limits than D&D.

He may be theoretically more powerful than a high level D&D Wizard. But in game terms he would have some kind of huge limiter on his magic.

Maybe he can replicate any D&D spell at will but there is a 10% chance per spell level that world ends or something.

Maybe that explains why he didn't light more enemies on fire like he did that 1 time? Or why he didn't just teleport the fellowship to mount doom

i mean, wasn't gandalf technically capable of much more but explicitly attempting to remain somewhat inconspicuous to the mortal denizens of middle earth and knew that all significant uses of magic would draw the attention of saruman and/or? sauron to him, that was the 'cost' to his magic, it's like telling a player 'sure you can play a fullcaster in this lowmagic world but every time you cast above a 2nd level spell you're going to let the big bad know exactly where you are, what you cast and are likely going to get a minimum hard encounter dropped on you in the near future' have a campaign like that and i'm sure you'll see the wizard casting less.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Absolutely. The Wizard can be studying and unlocking these difficult secrets offscreen, but a Fighter building up political power to attract followers in modern D&D must be played out in real time, round by round, person by person including all the random checks and DM fiat involved...

So roleplay out both then. I'm cool with that.

 

[Lanefan]

Absolutely this. I don't understand why there needs to be symmetry between player options and monster options.

Because the PCs aren't special. They're inhabitants of their setting just like everyone else in said setting; and as such have the same abilities open to them under the same conditions as do those other inhabitants.

 

[Lanefan]

A human that has bathed in the blood of fey, fiends, dragons, demons, maybe even gods by level 20. Who has been exposed to all kinds of elemental energies and magical effects. Who has used and been wounded by a wide assortment of magical objects. A human who has consumed a wide array of magical potions or alchemical elixirs. Or who may have been killed and brought back to life or reincarnated. A human who may have ventured into Heaven and Hell.

Like this just isn't Bob the security guard whose only life experience is protecting a mall.

Oh, I dunno - some malls I've seen, most of those things could happen to Bob during his first week on the job!