D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[tetrasodium]

Are they meditatively training to draw on Qi or the like or some other source like the barbarian rage that most people don't have? Or are they "just physically training"?

Are those the same thing or different? Does it depend on if you're in a faux adventure Western Europe or some parts of faux adventure East Asia?

Meant to respond to this earlier. The cultivation genre tends to share a lot with wuxia but tends to lean more towards what we would consider traditional or western fantasy with some wuxia tropes woven into the magic system flavoring the worldbuilding. For example: Here's one where the main character is a tree (literally), Another here where the MC pretty much spends the entire story making the money he needs to cultivate. Heck why not include one about a kobold trying to build & maintain a city in the apocalypse with this too. I could keep digging around for ones involving basically wizards or whatever but none spring to mind as readily available to read.

edit: one trope that almost always seems to carry over though is that the power scales for cultivators & "mortals" are on totally different planets and most of the world knows it.

 

[Minigiant]

Here's an exercise.

We all know why a lord might be scared of an enemy 20th level wizard coming to attack his castle.
It's a flying teleporting monster with infinite 1st and 2nd level spells and has 6-9th spells which can blast away his men-at-arms, instakill a stationed knight, and bypass most of them.

What if you changed classes.

If Lord Fartloroy angered Sir Andrew and he is 20th level and heading to Castle Fartloroy to kill the lord. Why is Lord Fortloroy pooping his pants?

What can Sir Andrew do that the lord's money and men cannot stop?

Is he a rolling ball of violence, murdering several dozens of men at a time and crashing threw doors? And walls?
Is he using his swordsmanship to cut the strands of reality to gate into the lord's courthouse?
Is he flying a pegasus over ther castle walls and their archers to land with his +3 longsword of hellfire?

What if it is Red Rodney the Rake, the level 20 rogue. What can he do?
Does he roll stealth and say, well I'm in his bedroom and slit his throat as he sleeps?
Does he fully and instantly replace a guard walk in, guess all the internal info, stab the lord, then backflip off the castle walls?
Does he sneak attack the lord from 1000 feet away the next time he steps out the castle?

 

[ECMO3]

So the question is: what specifically can D&D 5E do to fix this problem?

The best thing to do would be to explicitly point out the disparity out in the PHB so it does not surprise anyone and becomes a core acknowleged part of the game design and mechanics.

I think this a better solution and will cause less chaos and discontent than either nerfing casters or boosting non-casters, while also allowing for the thematic/story decision to play a non-magic character.

The two obvious broad solutions are varying degrees of nerf the casters and buff the non-casters.

Cool. But how?

If you are dead set on making the gap smaller, the easiest and most workable solution is to just buff the non-casters by giving them spells.

What you could do is make half-caster progression a basic part of all classes like ASIs currently are. So at 2nd level all characters would get 2 spells knowns and 2 slots. Then give them another spell and another caster level every 2 levels. So Rogues, Fighters, Barbarians, Monks, Rangers and Paladins would all be half-casters.

The Full casters would remain with their current list and would not get this.

This would close a large portion of the gap and would be a significant buff to the non-casters. If you wanted to close the gap even more, in addition to the above give everyone except full casters the magic initiate feat at 1st level for free. This would actually put non-casters ahead of casters at low level.

 

[Baron Opal II]

If I’m following the exchange between you and @Cap'n Kobold I don’t see the issue in a conversation where we are talking about closing the gap between martials and casters.

If a fighter can do the equivalent of Time Stop, for example, it’s not stopping a wizard from also casting Time Stop. I think what is being said is the fighter has that only option from a list while the wizard still has their full list of 9th level spells to choose from for the exact situation.

But how many options would they have? Two?

 

[MichaelSomething]

There are a dozen different ways to do this.

But for now, I'm gonna say play the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG. Nobody ever complains about martial caster balance there.

 

[James Gasik]

The 4e solution is absolutely not going to work for everyone.

Really I was thinking more like Earthdawn than 4e, but it is a solution to the problem, as "can do this all day" vs. "can do this a few times a day" creates issues any time the per diem character can use more magic in a day.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

But how many options would they have? Two?

?

 

[Pedantic]

Really I was thinking more like Earthdawn than 4e, but it is a solution to the problem, as "can do this all day" vs. "can do this a few times a day" creates issues any time the per diem character can use more magic in a day.

I think it's a bit defeatist to argue that a single resource system is necessary for the game to function, given the counter example is mostly 2 particularly at-odds systems, those being limited action slots per day and unlimited mediocre actions.

I'd love to see resource system take something like the "power source" position in 4e terms, if not move to a per-class structure. For example, something like the Tome of Battle's Crusader, with its semi-randomized set of options for each round, the Binder with a set of daily variable kits that are rechargeable or a design I quite liked was a summoner that could spend hit dice from its summoned monster to power limited spell effects. Those could all comfortably sit side by side. Really, it would be nice if the resting/recharge system of the game was more carefully designed to interact equitably with most classes.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Quick & Simple?

Slots.

Get rid of them.

Casters can use cantrips, and ritual casting.

Of course, you'd need to reduce challenges accordingly....
....and address the ranged/melee gap...

 

[Micah Sweet]

The best thing to do would be to explicitly point out the disparity out in the PHB so it does not surprise anyone and becomes a core acknowleged part of the game design and mechanics.

I think this a better solution and will cause less chaos and discontent than either nerfing casters or boosting non-casters, while also allowing for the thematic/story decision to play a non-magic character.



If you are dead set on making the gap smaller, the easiest and most workable solution is to just buff the non-casters by giving them spells.

What you could do is make half-caster progression a basic part of all classes like ASIs currently are. So at 2nd level all characters would get 2 spells knowns and 2 slots. Then give them another spell and another caster level every 2 levels. So Rogues, Fighters, Barbarians, Monks, Rangers and Paladins would all be half-casters.

The Full casters would remain with their current list and would not get this.

This would close a large portion of the gap and would be a significant buff to the non-casters. If you wanted to close the gap even more, in addition to the above give everyone except full casters the magic initiate feat at 1st level for free. This would actually put non-casters ahead of casters at low level.

Not a very satisfying solution to many, but it would work I think.