D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[M_Natas]

By your definition any character with superpowers cannot be mundane.

Exactly. If they have superpowers they are magical/supernatural/mutants/Aliens/demon bargained/...

if mundane people just trough Training can become superstrong, like some people say happen in Mangas and Anime a lot, than thoose are probably not for me.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

What? That's not true at all.

I place primacy on the fiction, not the mechanics. If the fiction dictates something happens or is true, then the mechanics must follow the fiction. If it's necessary to invoke the mechanics at all...which it generally isn't. I'm very much a fiction-first referee and player. The mechanics are a poor representation of the fiction and must be regularly changed to match the fiction. The fiction is not, nor should it be, limited by the mechanics.

But they should align. I am fine with both changing the fiction or changing the mechanics to make this happen. But I don't want the mechanics to be just disassociated gamey stuff.

 

[Cadence]

Exactly. If they have superpowers they are magical/supernatural/mutants/Aliens/demon bargained/...

if mundane people just trough Training can become superstrong, like some people say happen in Mangas and Anime a lot, than thoose are probably not for me.

I kind of want to know what the Olympics would look like if run on each world. Do they have divisions by species and not just m/f? What is disallowed like we disallow steroids (or high natural hormone levels in some cases) and some equipment that doesn't meet standards? What are the times/weights/distances compared to our world?

 

[TwoSix]

But they should align. I am fine with both changing the fiction or changing the mechanics to make this happen. But I don't want the mechanics to be just disassociated gamey stuff.

Here's an example.

In a recent game I DMed, a major NPC that both fought and later allied with the PCs was a drow who was a savant with teleportation magic. The NPC was 15th level equivalent (had 15 Hit Dice) and had these abilities:

Magic missile, cast at 3rd level, at-will
Armor of agathys, cast at 4th level, swapped to force damage instead of cold, 1/SR
Arcane gate at will
Create permanent teleport circle with 1 full day of work and 1000gp in rare, specialized reagents

Definitely one of the best NPCs I've played, and the players both hated and loved him. But, I feel like there's several people on this thread who would tell me I'm playing incorrectly by running a humanoid NPC that has abilities that are completely out of the bounds of a "normal" PC build.

 

[overgeeked]

But they should align.

Yes, of course.

I am fine with both changing the fiction or changing the mechanics to make this happen. But I don't want the mechanics to be just disassociated gamey stuff.

Nor do I. You're assuming I do because we disagree about whether the NPCs should be built like PCs.

 

[mamba]

2. IIRC, the structure of your question was "In their media, are their any examples of mundane characters who can do superheroic things without relying on external power sources like superserums, mutant drinks, etc". The logic you've presented here is "if they can do things beyond the normal rules of the D&D game system, they cannot be mundane regardless of how they got there". It is perfectly self-defeating.

only if you expect those mundane characters to accomplish this while having the same ability score range as humans, like the playable races do

If Drax’ species has Str 40, Dex 35, Con 40 then that is his power source

 

[tetrasodium]

Flash back to 3E where every butcher, baker, tailor, and candlestick maker must have gone adventuring if they're skilled (to get the XP to level) and thus Gordon Ramsay (or pick whatever 20th level chef on your planet) is roughly comparable to a 5th (?) level fighter.

3.x had no classes, they could get it doing class stuff. That was important because a class ability with super narrow conditions needed before it could activate could be believably terrifying when the gm described just how different it is when the NPC lawyer gets permission from the judge and utters the most diabolical curses ever crafted with a snap of their fingers "no it's an NPC class feature" simply slapped any arguments about the spell's exact wording right out the window. Not only is that a good example of a limited use NPC class ability, the lawyers ultimately talk about all the experience they get from the various lawyerly events surrounding the trial.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Is "unnecessary" similar to irrelevant? I suppose so.

But with that said, I haven't seen a persuasive argument that the consistency you are looking for is desirable.

It's a preference, one I happen to share. You're not required to be persuaded by it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Look. If some bizarre notion of consistency is so important to you it’s worth shooting yourself in the foot, you do you. But don’t pretend like it has to be equally important to everyone else.

Please don't call a desire for in-setting consistency bizarre. You can simply not agree with it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or, even easier is if the NPCs simply did not work like PCs and be done with it.

Sure, if you want to abandon the consistency some of us want.

People want different things.