D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Vaalingrade]

We disagree on a fundamental level. I very much believe that the intent of D&D lore, for virtually every published setting I can think of, is that humans, and basically all the humanoid races, are more-or-less analagous to what we'll call RLH (real life humans), with some minor exceptions with certain races like dwarf and elf being extremely long lived.

To back this up, look at the back drop NPCs and world building. The super vast majority of background characters - ones that don't even have names or get mentioned - are identical to RLHs.

Like the elves who don't sleep but trance for four hours. Or the preying mantic men that break the square cube law. Of the golem people.

Or the humans that are versatile and competent.

Face it: it was fantasy the whole time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You are making that the discussion now.

Previously you were talking about Cap's superserum and Geralt's mutant juice and how those are the explanations for their superpowers. And you said you were looking for examples beyond Saitama for characters who were powerful without that external juice.

And I gave you a list.

And it is silly to use existing game mechanics as a required baseline for proposed game mechanics. It is again self-fulfilling.

..What if fighters could jump 50 feet?
..that would be supernatural
..why?
..because the current book says they can only jump x feet.

And no one is saying there is a need to create a Drax race with a strength of 50.

What I am saying is that we have fictional examples of characters who are, or get superhumanly capable without the need for an external power supply.

There is no reason D&D could not emulate this. We don't need radioactive spiders lurking around every corner waiting to grant superhuman capabilities to the lowly muggles.

It's a fantasy world. Muggles can be fantastic too.

Not without a supernatural explanation they can't. Not in my game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, to be clear, you would consider my NPC design in violation of your play principles?

I can countenance a unique one-off like the NPC you describe, if that sort of thing is actually presented as such, but generally speaking, yes, I do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think that they define what "humanity" is within the context of their fictional universe.

Making comparisons between a fictional universe and the real one doesn't have a lot of utility.

Except they don't define humans as different from Earth humans. Almost never in fact. That is an assumption people who hold this agenda make to justify it.

 

[Raiztt]

Except they don't define humans as different from Earth humans. Almost never in fact. That is an assumption people who hold this agenda make to justify it.

Exactly, just as in D&D, they're indistinguishable.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is a great example...

Of course not! Luke is an alien like every other rhing in the Star Wars fiction..it's right there in the crawl and what you wrote.."galaxy far far away"

Let me pose it to you this way. Did the introduction of midichlorians make you giddy that you finally had an explanation for why Luke was able to use force powers despite being just a "human"?

Or had you just always accepted that maybe "humans" were just built a little different a long time ago in a galaxy far far away?

Adding the force to a setting doesn't make humans as a species like not the ones on earth any more than adding the ability for some people to cast spells does.

 

[Cadence]

I don't know, but I hope you do when the PCs ask the NPC to teach this to them!

Well, if the PCs would go take 100 years off in a tower conversing with things beyond in deep study instead of trying to learn new spells by blasting away with cantrips at monsters, they might be able to too.

Regarding "teach this to them", what is the in game story for people very quickly getting better at things they haven't been practicing (new skills, new spells, etc...) -- or have they been practicing blacksmithing (or whatnot) or bringing their labs with them to spell research through the dungeons? Presumably if one could become quickly skilled in a variety of areas by going off and fighting it would have a big impact in how the economy worked (and would make military recruiting a lot easier!!!).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Except they don't define humans as different from Earth humans. Almost never in fact. That is an assumption people who hold this agenda make to justify it.

I mean they don’t define humans as different in Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon either, yet we can accept that in that story people can just learn wire fu.

 

[Gammadoodler]

We disagree on a fundamental level. I very much believe that the intent of D&D lore, for virtually every published setting I can think of, is that humans, and basically all the humanoid races, are more-or-less analagous to what we'll call RLH (real life humans), with some minor exceptions with certain races like dwarf and elf being extremely long lived.

To back this up, look at the back drop NPCs and world building. The super vast majority of background characters - ones that don't even have names or get mentioned - are identical to RLHs.

Yeah.. we focus on different things, and the things you consider to be exceptions, to me, appear to be par for the course. Dwarves, gnomes, and elves are both exceptionally long-lived. Halflings, gnomes and goblins are half-sized with equivalent physical characteristics. Dragonborn breathe elemental energy. Tieflings and Aasimar have innate magic and a direct ancestral tie to extraplanar creatures. Aaracockra are bird people with short lifespans who can fly. Warforged are sentient machines.

The settings are magical, governed by tangible, accessible deities who dwell in tangible, accessible, and separate planes of existence.

For every similarity you point with RLH (I do love having an abbreviation), I can point to 10 exceptions. This is not how exceptions work.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean they don’t define humans as different in Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon either, yet we can accept that in that story people can just learn wire-fu.

One assumes they engaged in some kind of training for that (and live in a supernatural world that has such power available), but that doesn't make the human species different from Earth human in that world.

In any case, RPGs generally explain themselves more completely and in detail than film, because the medium allows for it. Look at most any RPG based on a licensed fantasy or science fiction property. They almost always provide more detail than the film or TV show does, because players ask questions, and because RPGs have the time and space required to do so.