D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Micah Sweet]

i don't really have an issue with unlimited cantrips, mostly cause i advocate for casters getting less slots and having to ration them properly, though i'd be fine with not letting cantrips be as powerful/scale as well as they currently do, being a spellcaster is about having spikes, having produce flame (not fire bolt) as your main damage cantrip leaves you behind the curve than the martial with a warhammer of greatsword but that's made up for when you drop that AoE fireball and fry half a room of enemies.

the wizard being reliant on a crossbow or a dagger feels to me like one of those things that seems like it makes sense because it's always been a thing in DnD and started in editions that were tonally very different from 5e, but when you do think about it and distance yourself from the shadow of DnD tradition it kinda seems weird in 5e imo

"my wizard fires their crossbow"
"your wizard fires their crossbow?"
"yeah, that's right"
"they don't, oh i dunno, use magic or something?"
"nah, they use a weapon"

Fair enough, but I like the shadow of that tradition.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Speak for yourself. Before there was GNS there was GDS; it's a definite subgroup of RPG players.

IMO is speaking for myself. That's why I put it in.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The classic Staff of Striking was not just for picket lines!

+3 vs. Scabs?

 

[Tony Vargas]

+3 vs. Scabs?

And double damage dice vs Pinkertons!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

1. Cull at least half the spells in the game. There are far too many already.
2. Expand on the playtest Fighter changes. Decouple Tactical Mind from Second Wind. Add at least one other exclusively non-combat benefit to the base class. Rework all Fighter subclasses to have a solid, useful non-combat feature. (My proposed "Gritty Determination" is an option, pending significant testing.)
3. Apply this same idea to all other non-casting classes. Rogue only needs a light touch. Monk needs a lot of love. Barbarian is shaky but doesn't need extensive reworks.
4. Add the Warlord class. Seriously. Just do it. They're more popular than druids.
5. Slightly dial back the emphasis on spellcasting for all classes (especially Wizards) and give them cool features instead. Full casters can still be full casters, but their class features should shine brightly, not be completely overwhelmed by their spell list. Bard, for example, probably doesn't need a rework (or only a light one.)
6. Ideally, give non-casters more cool things. Equipment properties are a start. Other tools they can leverage would be even better, perhaps linked to tool proficiency; make the Artificer the hybrid martial-caster because it borrows the martial prowess with tools, rather than with weapons. Something like that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Where does the Barbarian rank on the class popularity leaderboard?

The Barbarian isn’t the Hulk.

You’d need at least;

• Increase in bulk, count as large for being moved around or grappled or moving and grappling others
• Increased range with thrown weapons
• Persistent jump effect. You can jump your speed
• Speed boost
• Regen
• Increased lift, pull, drag, yadda yadda
• Adv on strength checks, con saves, and use Str for intimidation

The Barbarian isn’t close even at high level.

I suppose you could think of comic book superheroes as the heroic fantasy that was acceptable for the time & place they originated?

You could I guess, but it seems like a stretch.

They’re fantastical, sure, but I’d posit that the number of people who think of any well know super when you ask them to name some fantasy heroes rounds to 0.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The Barbarian isn’t the Hulk.

It's the guy who gets strong and gets angry. The Hulk's inspiration was Jekyl/Hyde, (and he changed at night).
The angry Hulk is very berserker-like, just turned up to supers levels of power.

It's a similar 'class fantasy.'

They’re fantastical, sure, but I’d posit that the number of people who think of any well know super when you ask them to name some fantasy heroes rounds to 0.

They seem to come up a lot. There's some heavy crossover in the fandoms.

And, D&D has that long and storied history of being adapted to other genres.
3.x Sorcerer made fine Marvel Mutants, for instance.

 

[Lanefan]

It's the guy who gets strong and gets angry. The Hulk's inspiration was Jekyl/Hyde, (and he changed at night).
The angry Hulk is very berserker-like, just turned up to supers levels of power.

It's a similar 'class fantasy.'

They seem to come up a lot. There's some heavy crossover in the fandoms.

Crossover yes, but I think even within the fans of both it's often siloed - fantasy is fantasy, supers is supers, and rarely if ever shall the twain meet.

I mean, I'm a fan of both the MCU and of fantasy, but I can really do without MCU-like characters in my fantasy realms, thanks very much.

 

[mamba]

And needs a to-hit roll, a la a sword or bow.

yes, factor that into the cantrip damage, better yet, have the casters make rolls for successes too

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Bard, for example, probably doesn't need a rework

Oh come on! The 5e Bard is a steaming pile of wet garbage on a humid day. It needs to rewritten from the ground up and get back very close to none of its existing features. Any time someone plays one when I’m DM I just die a little inside.

What’s worse, it used to be one of my favorites. The 4e Bard very smoothly supported a tactical trickster and a swashbuckler via powers, and had dailies that I could flavor correctly as songs and chants and such, and bardic multiclassing was cool, but it still squeezed by on the basis of skill challenges, being good at lore, and ritual magic, beings stuff that wasn’t in classes, and thus didn’t feel missing from the Bard.

The 3.5 Bard tried hard to do the same, and was very fun in spite of its many issues, but was already trying to be this like weird psuedo-rogue troubadour thing. But the songs were great. That mechanic should have stayed and been developed.