D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[James Gasik]

'Nothing but emulate certain videogames' here being a placeholder for 'removes the D&Dism of wizards being reduced to crossbow users after one spell'.

You forgot going back to making them terrible crossbow users- plenty of people would be happy going back to different attack bonus systems for different classes!

 

[Raiztt]

You forgot going back to making them terrible crossbow users- plenty of people would be happy going back to different attack bonus systems for different classes!

Older editions of D&D have arguably more balanced casters. At least back in the day the MU was fragile as glass and had to be very careful/judicious about when to even cast their spells.

Setting aside the root problem (specific spells being overpowered) the caster's kind of just get it all and don't have to sacrifice anything.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Thought you wanted to nerf casters.

I don't. I want to elevate martials.

I feel that engaging in nerfing casts is either an effort to lower the overall power level and fantasy of the game, which is not good, or at worst an act of revenge against caster players who admittedly are partly to blame for the divide, but vengeance doesn't make martials more fun to play.

I'm in favor of removing the wizard class, but only to replace them with multiple classes better suited to the varying flavors of magical fantasy and remove the singular hog in the niche of 'does things'.

 

[TwoSix]

I think it's quite the opposite though. We got started on this tangent because of how 5e style powerful no cost unlimited attack cantrips seem to emulate nothing but certain types of video games while consuming power budget better off left allocated to class elements that are more central to the core elements of caster classes

Sure, and my pushback here is that high-frequency use of attack spells, such as 5e cantrips, are pretty central to most modern conceptions of the mage/wizard trope.

 

[MichaelSomething]

How about enforcing long adventuring days so casters have to ration their spells?

 

[FrozenNorth]

Agreed. Warlock is one of the very few classes that has a solid skeleton, it mostly just needs some tweaks.

Agree with this as well. I like the added customization that invocations allows so much that I ported it to martial classes (with invocations that match their respective archetypes).

I also find it interesting that there seems to be relatively little discussion about particular invocations being overpowered, to the same extent that certain spells tend to cause routine problems.

 

[TwoSix]

Agree with this as well. I like the added customization that invocations allows so much that I ported it to martial classes (with invocations that match their respective archetypes).

I also find it interesting that there seems to be relatively little discussion about particular invocations being overpowered, to the same extent that certain spells tend to cause routine problems.

Well, I suppose a fair amount of warlock balance concerns specifically center around the interaction of Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast.

 

[Vaalingrade]

How about enforcing long adventuring days so casters have to ration their spells?

Why punish everyone?

 

[Raiztt]

ya I'd rather nerf casters than have super hero martials.

 

[Vaalingrade]

ya I'd rather nerf casters than have super hero martials.

Take that up with the old school name level charts.

They've always been superheroes.

To a certain hilariously inaccurate value of 'superhero', but at least Gygax wasn't trying to use it as an insult.