D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Consistency is not required.

Absolutely this. I don't understand why there needs to be symmetry between player options and monster options.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Absolutely this. I don't understand why there needs to be symmetry between player options and monster options.

Exactly.

 

[TwoSix]

Exactly.

I 100% agree with you, but there’s a strong faction within the player base that feels very strongly otherwise. I suspect we’ll see more posts in this thread shortly bearing that out.

 

[Aldarc]

I 100% agree with you, but there’s a strong faction within the player base that feels very strongly otherwise. I suspect we’ll see more posts in this thread shortly bearing that out.

Sure, but from what I recall, a good number of those people with such views don't even play 5e D&D. Their opinions will undoubtedly be heard, but they don't seem particularly relevant.

 

[DammitVictor]

Like, outside of One Punch Men, which is a parody, right?/Manga there is no mere non magical human who can compete with supernatural people.

A lot of the problem is definitional. We have a funny definition of what is "supernatural", whether it's magic or superscience, and anything that is not those things is "mundane". Personally, I think we should start by defining "supernatural" in terms of the square cube law.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I 100% agree with you, but there’s a strong faction within the player base that feels very strongly otherwise. I suspect we’ll see more posts in this thread shortly bearing that out.

Literal "monsters" do not matter, but yes, I'd prefer if humanoids that are just basically similar people like the PCs would mechanically work in similarish manner. Like I get some streamlining needs to be done for usability, but it is weird if they have just completely different mechanics. Like the new caster statblocks giving them "spells" that the PCs cannot learn.

 

[Gammadoodler]

But Thor is more a Wizard or maybe a Paladin and not a Fighter.
And what I figured was, that some people want to have mundane non magical fighters that can beat dragons and kill 100s of mooks.

Thor as booknerd spellcaster would need some explanation.

But besides that, it wasn't really the point of the example. The point was that the MCU often includes some straightforward D&D scenarios that the heroes often tackle using a straightforward D&D approach.

The "It's D&D not the MCU" refrain strikes me as tone deaf regarding the characteristics of both the MCU and D&D.

 

[Pedantic]

Sure, but from what I recall, a good number of those people with such views don't even play 5e D&D. Their opinions will undoubtedly be heard, but they don't seem particularly relevant.

Of course we play 5e, it's the only game in town. You try getting a group together to play a heavily houseruled 3.x variant. No one wants to read my binder, and no one cares about my esoteric concerns about objective skill DCs. I have to go online and argue simply to find anyone who cares enough about design to think I'm wrong.

What does this have to do with magic/martial discrepancies again?

 

[Gammadoodler]

I really can't think of one (don't read a lot of Mangas, so maybe there are more) but even in the superhero genre or most fantasy novels I read, martials only are equal to spellcasters, when they get magical or supernatural powers, be it from gamma radiation, serum, magical artifacts or magic of their own.

The Witcher? A mutant who uses magic.
Harry Dresden? The martials either get super natural powers or are outclassed and die.
Cap. America? Supernatural drugs.
Hulk? Gamma Radiation.
Thor? God.

Like, outside of One Punch Men, which is a parody, right?/Manga there is no mere non magical human who can compete with supernatural people.

Asgardians. Superman. Wonder Woman. Drax. Groot. Rock Lee. Pick a fancy swordsman.

Edit: I missed the "human" in there and have since chosen to ignore it as an irrelevant parameter.

 

[Aldarc]

Of course we play 5e, it's the only game in town. You try getting a group together to play a heavily houseruled 3.x variant. No one wants to read my binder, and no one cares about my esoteric concerns about objective skill DCs. I have to go online and argue simply to find anyone who cares enough about design to think I'm wrong.

What does this have to do with magic/martial discrepancies again?

I didn't have you in mind nor was I aware of your "royal we" views on this particular subject.