D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

In any case, the point about comic books is that characters of wildly different power levels working together or fighting each other works due insane amount of plot armour and other writer provided plot contrivances. So unless one wants to turn D&D into a game with a crazy amount of narrative plot control mechanics, the same won't work for here.

Yep. There’s also a reliance on non magical inner strength that’s not really modeled in D&D. Captain America can be counted on to not wallow in pity when they end up in the dimension where doctor doom won or whatever.

Also the less raw powerful hero’s are often the tacticians which is left to the player in D&D, taking away another avenue to model.

Although both of these strengths are helped a lot by narrative contrivances as well…

 

[James Gasik]

Those are kind of situations where the whole HP mechanic just seems to collapse.

Well yeah, any sort of "this should kill you instantly" that bypasses hit points does. I don't even like save or die spells doing end runs around hit points; I feel that you should be brought down to a certain percentage of your hit point total before you can be disintegrated/turned to stone/what have you.

But D&D has always had two devils driving design- the one that wants to make it a game about heroic adventures in a fantastic world doing fantastic things, and the one that wants to maintain at least the air of believability to the proceedings.

As a result, no matter where your preferences fall on the "super hero action" vs. "gritty low fantasy" scale, there's always going to be some weirdness in the rules because the game is trying to serve two masters at once.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I guess one could interpret them that way, but personally I wouldn't.

But in any case, you'd need active plot control mechanics in order to work like Batman works alongside Superman.

So a good DM then???

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

I usually view them as part that and part undefinable heroic chutzpah. A sizeable portion on here are vegetarian except for the last point.

One of the cows that should have been put down.

Call them heroic stamina points or whatever.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So a good DM then???

If you think a good DM is one that invents plot contrivances that let the characters to succeed, then I guess. To me that just seems like a type of railroading though.

 

[Pedantic]

Those are kind of situations where the whole HP mechanic just seems to collapse.

I was being perfectly serious. D&D just asks you to take the trope further. If you settle on "a successful attack roll means a sword hit your flesh" as the norm (and I am in that camp, for the record), then you have to extrapolate up, and fighters really can wade through lava for a couple rounds, and get only superficially seared.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

So a good DM then???

A DM can do this and I think some do to help mitigate the martial / caster gap.

But it’s really bad game design if that is a hidden requirement to balance.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I was being perfectly serious. D&D just asks you to take the trope further. If you settle on "a successful attack roll means a sword hit your flesh" as the norm (and I am in that camp, for the record), then you have to extrapolate up, and fighters really can wade through lava for a couple rounds, and get only superficially seared.

Sure. It just feels pretty damn weird.

 

[MichaelSomething]

A DM can do this and I think some do to help mitigate the martial / caster gap.

But it’s really bad game design if that is a hidden requirement to balance.

So put a chapter in the DMG that tells them to do that, along with several tools for doing so?

 

[Cadence]

Sure. It just feels pretty damn weird.

The only interpretation of HP where the dip in lava being survivable doesn't feel weird to me is the forcefield one. HP measure the strength of each being's invisible forcefield that holds in their life force too. When it gets to zero and shuts down the life force tries to escape while something in the body struggles to keep it.

I'm not saying that isn't even weirder.