Gammadoodler
Hero
Sure I get it. You are ignoring evidence that doesn't suit your needs..exactly as described.
D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap
- Thread starter overgeeked
- Start date
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
And your relentlessly gamist outlook is of no interest to me.
CreamCloud0
Hero
they're just ordinary humans...who've grown up in a world with magic in the air and the water and mythril and adamantium in the minerals they consumed in their diet.
It didn't sound to me like they were being relentlessly gamist. It sounded to me like they were just saying that if game rules are being used to argue a point then it is fair to use game rules to argue a point. It feels like an essay could be written somewhere about needed simplifications to make the game work vs. rules with more intentional diagetic connections.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
Or people just need to stop pretending D&D isn't a game.
Crimson Longinus
Legend
Well, it used to be that they weren't, but then racial ASIs were removed...
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Its a matter of priorities sir. The game part is important, but creating an immersive imaginary world with verisimilitude that the Players can engage with through their PCs is more important to me. Your comment assumes an either/or philosophy I don't share.
Tony Vargas
Legend
It seems like I never see anyone wanting to narrow the martial/caster gap in the name realism, associated mechanics, simulation, verisimilitude, immersion, or whatever...
but the thread is
what's a verisimilitudinous immersive realistic way of doing that?
Well, piling on restrictions & limitations on casting and magic like in the olden days... maybe adding dangers and consequences to it's use and abuse?
...maybe ... while ideas like those do reduce the overall utility of magic, in theory, they also make it more and more central to the play of the game...
but the thread is
[+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap
what's a verisimilitudinous immersive realistic way of doing that?
Well, piling on restrictions & limitations on casting and magic like in the olden days... maybe adding dangers and consequences to it's use and abuse?
...maybe ... while ideas like those do reduce the overall utility of magic, in theory, they also make it more and more central to the play of the game...
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Neonchameleon
Legend
+-2 is "basically as competent". The only things that really mattered were things like Darkvision, Wings, or Powerful Build.
And the problem with the "just like the real world" approach is how ubiquitous magic has been in D&D since the specialist wizards in Unearthed Arcana started getting free spells at level up. In oD&D where all magic was divine or obtained through really dangerous adventuring archaeology "like the real world" made sense. Through the 2e period a magic-integral world like Eberron made more sense, and in 5e there are at most four classes that aren't outright casters.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Sure. Make casters deal with TSR restrictions! I am completely down with that. It was #1 on my "ways to fix this" list.
